AT/randonee race bindings on Asnes Ingstad?

[ochotona_ak]

Hi All,

Bit of an odd question, and I cant think of another group of people who might have ideas about this. I'm planning a trip that will involve about 150-200 mi of flat/rolling skiing in Alaska. It will be mostly breaking trail and some skating on overflow & snomachine trails. The twist is that I'm bringing snow kites to hopefully cover large distance if there is any good wind, which means I will need to be able to clip in the boot heels. The only similar trip I've seen is theMcNair-Landry's Arctic trip in 2013 where they brought both nordic and alpine skis which they used while kiting. I'm needing to go much lighter, so don't have that option.

I picked up a pair of Asnes Ingstad skis and AT race bindings and light boots but before I actually drilled the bindings I thought I'd see if anyone out there has any experience with this kind of thing.

First: how bad of an idea is this? I've heard of people pulling toe pieces out of Asnes skis, but the heel mount area is even thinner. Will I immediately rip these out?

Second: To keep the binding pivot point at the ski balance point as is recommended, I had to slide the whole setup back ~1.75cm to account for the extra ~50g of the heel piece. Will this be an issue with how the feels to ski to have the center of pressure down on the ski be shifted back like that?

Thanks for any insight you might have!

JB

[spopepro]

I haven’t been able to put many miles on them yet as I haven’t yet found an AT boot that fits well enough for the miles I need them to. I set these up for a similar goal—very long trips with some steep and scary skiing. I think it’s the right idea.

I put the pins on the balance point. Skied them for 20k around some groomed trails and it seemed good. Surprisingly good stride, and I could do light parallel turns with just the locked toe pieces.

I found getting the rear heel adjusted right to be brutally difficult. Strongly suggest a plate with lots of travel. The issue is that there’s enough camber that when it gets fully flexed you’re taking like 3-4mm out of the 5mm gap many bindings suggest. If I did it again, I might consider one of the heels with more gap tolerance. But I do love the gara race titan.

[Musk Ox]

You might want to drop https://kitekurs.no a line. Pick their brains about bindings on long tours.

And this thread covers a little of the same ground, there might be something useful somewhere...

https://telemarktalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5073

[snow-mark]

Very interesting! I have Ingstads with NNNBC and really like them. I am mildly interested in trying “skimo” and other ways of doing longer, more challenging tours. But I am not interested in chasing steep descents, so waxable nordic skis with AT bindings seems like a great solution. I’ll follow this thread.

@Musk Ox thanks for posting the other thread.

[jyw5]

Very interesting! I have Ingstads with NNNBC and really like them. I am mildly interested in trying “skimo” and other ways of doing longer, more challenging tours. But I am not interested in chasing steep descents, so waxable nordic skis with AT bindings seems like a great solution. I’ll follow this thread.

@Musk Ox thanks for posting the other thread.

Just curious, if you aren't doing steep descents, why would you want AT bindings/boots? leather/NNN BC is totally capable and better on your feet. if you need warmer boots, still cheaper and more comfortable to use lined alfa polar boots with built in gaiters...I use Alfa Guard Adv with full gaiters and that works well.

if you need technical climbing, crampon compatible setup and high alpine warmth for a multiday climb, you are better off with mountaineering boots + Silvretta bindings ... which with some skill is doable even on steep descents... like this one:

[jyw5]

for steep descents in perfect snow, I use:

FT62 + NNN BC + Alfa Guard Adv + full length OR gaiters + pomoca 62mm full length tip attachment skins + 1 extra backup pair ... that entire setup (including gaiters, skins) weighs 11lbs.

the only thing I would do different is manual bindings. I think Ingstad would be much better than FT62 when the snow is not as ideal. but the FT62 flies down the mountain faster than most AT skiiers on good feather light spring snow.

[snow-mark]

Very interesting! I have Ingstads with NNNBC and really like them. I am mildly interested in trying “skimo” and other ways of doing longer, more challenging tours. But I am not interested in chasing steep descents, so waxable nordic skis with AT bindings seems like a great solution. I’ll follow this thread.

@Musk Ox thanks for posting the other thread.

Just curious, if you aren't doing steep descents, why would you want AT bindings/boots? leather/NNN BC is totally capable and better on your feet. if you need warmer boots, still cheaper and more comfortable to use lined alfa polar boots with built in gaiters...I use Alfa Guard Adv with full gaiters and that works well.

if you need technical climbing, crampon compatible setup and high alpine warmth for a multiday climb, you are better off with mountaineering boots + Silvretta bindings ... which with some skill is doable even on steep descents... like this one:

Fair question. I do hit the limit of what I can ski in NNNBC or 3pin with soft boots well before anything I consider steep, especially in tough snow conditions. So I can definitely think of situations where having my heels locked would be advantageous. And if I do end up trying some longer traverses or skimo type stuff, I think AT could be better because my alpine skiing skills are better than my tele skills. So a cambered, waxable ski, with a very light AT/tech binding, and light boots could be a pretty powerful setup.

I forgot about those Silvretta bindings. Maybe I’d consider that if I go this direction.

But, honestly, at this point, it’s just a dream. I’d have to figure out if there are traverses and/or races that would interest me enough to get me to spend that much on a skimo AT package. Especially since my policy so far is that I don’t onto any avy terrain, period. It’s quite likely I would decide that it’s not worth it.

[snow-mark]

for steep descents in perfect snow, I use:

FT62 + NNN BC + Alfa Guard Adv + full length OR gaiters + pomoca 62mm full length tip attachment skins + 1 extra backup pair ... that entire setup (including gaiters, skins) weighs 11lbs.

the only thing I would do different is manual bindings. I think Ingstad would be much better than FT62 when the snow is not as ideal. but the FT62 flies down the mountain faster than most AT skiiers on good feather light spring snow.

Very cool. Are you doing mostly tele turns on the downhills with this setup?

[spopepro]

Jyw5 is the real deal and gets after it. Here’s why I ended up where I did:

Goal is 200+mi backcountry trip in maritime snowpack. I feel like I need double boots because of being able to take the liners into the bag with me. I feel like I need a fast ski for the flats and rolling terrain but need to stay in control on a couple of 45deg portions*. They aren’t long… but they’re there. And I’d like to be as light as feasible.

Mountaineering boots + silvrettas don’t ski well enough for me on flats or steeps. Really only great as an approach tool for serious alpine objectives. NNN-BC isn’t going to be good enough for the steeps, especially as I can’t depend on perfect snow. I haven’t skied xplore… but I was disappointed in how no heel structure was considered for getting steep. I considered TTS but the old F1 boots just don’t fit me at all and the waiting around for scarpa got old. That and it sounds like a 1.3kg boot anyway, not something light.

So it’s all a compromise. If I had infinite funds I’d have PdG make me a touring boot with forefoot flex. I know at least one person has. But as such, I think (think…) this is the way to go.


* for snow-mark: just ski 45deg and steeper! Then you’re not in avy terrain.

[ochotona_ak]

Thanks for all the helpful replies!

First: @spopepro - I was hoping to avoid an adjustment plate because it will mess up the balance point even more, and I went with the Kreuzspitz bindings because they call for a 6mm heel gap as opposed to 4-5 like most other at bindings, but I think you're right. An adjustment plate is going to be another 14g+screws, but will also give something for my boot to land on in flat-on-ski mode so i'll probably do it if for nothing else than to space out the screw holes and reduce forces more. It seems like we have nearly identical skiing objectives and have settled on almost exactly the same solution maybe we should get a group order of the Ginoux boots

For others (@jyw5) wondering about why plastic boots and tech bindings, I already have a pair of Voile Objective BC's for longish trips with steep descents (that double as my skimo race skis) and I love them for that application, but they don't glide nearly well enough or track straight enough for a 200mi trip that doesnt require steep descents. For this use case (the Alaska Wilderness Ski Classic) the primary problem is keeping feet dry and bindings from freezing when skiing through slushy river overflow in -30C temps - a case where plastic boots and AT bindings are the only real solution. That combined with the fact that I'm going to be trying to kite ski and will need the heel retention for directional control leads me to this conundrum. Plenty of people up here just use tech toes and plastic boots (Luc coined the term "Monster Nordic" for this) but really my only question is around installation of the heel piece.