Current solutions for old snow rough and icy XCD

[DG99]

Here’s my dilemma. It’s actually the same old problem all over again! Why are Tele boots either wimpy or overkill? I’m wondering what people’s solutions are these days.

I’m in western Oregon, long time telemark, XC and alpine skier.

So I have Fischer Outback 68s and Fischer BCX 675 boots. For the sort of backcountry cross country following the ungroomed trails around thing. Pretty quick and light for mileage. Can get a little turning in on that too if it’s just right. It’s best when a few inches of fresh over old firm snow.

But when it’s not been snowing for a while it gets pretty icy and lumpy. Including from the snowshoers having walked all over the place. The Fischer boots are surprisingly flexible even though they don’t seem so when flexing in the hand. They just don’t edge and support much at all. Easy to go down on the ice, really sketchy. Even descending on smooth ice it’s just too easy to go down. I think also the higher camber of the skis doesn’t help. I tried using my old T2X boots in those skis, but just as bad since there is a ton of rocker launch especially with the Rotty 3 pins mounted flat on the ski. I saw those taller Fischer BCX Transnordic boots but the soles and duckbills look like the same thing as the BCX 675.

My telemark skis are Voile Vector BC with Switchbacks and Scarpa T2X. A bit ponderous but the ticket for off trail, deep snow turns, and the real backcountry. Not so great for trails. I used to also have some Fischer SBound 98 but they would get bogged down off trail and the T2s were a bit restrictive kicking and gliding on them anyways. But handled bad trail conditions much better than the more XC setup.

Looking around the T4s might be the ticket on those Outbacks for tougher trails conditions but maybe ponderous, not sure about the rocker launch situation. They don’t have any in my size 27.5 these days.

Maybe I should just get a whole new set up, T4s, three pin with a Voile riser that has some ramp angle (Or Voile Switchbacks?) on some Fischer SBound 98 or wider. Wouldn’t really do deep snow like the vectors or mileage like the outback rig but the ticket for old crusty conditions. Otherwise I’ll just have to do only ski area groomers during winter droughts!

Suggestions?

[KDog]

Maybe I should just get a whole new set up, T4s, three pin with a Voile riser that has some ramp angle (Or Voile Switchbacks?) on some Fischer SBound 98 or wider. Wouldn’t really do deep snow like the vectors or mileage like the outback rig but the ticket for old crusty conditions. Otherwise I’ll just have to do only ski area groomers during winter droughts!

DG, I lived in your area for a very long time (well Central Oregon) and had my best success with both Madshus Annums (now Panorama 78) and/or Fischer S-Bound 112's. Breaking trail thru Cascade concrete with warm crusts, sastrugi from heavy winds or making turns on wind blown chalk (which I love!) required wide tips and strong flex. Maximum area of waxless base for the melt/freeze conditions which make grip difficult. I switched to the S-Bounds with the easy skin for that very reason. I recommend the Switchback for the free pivot because it makes the flats tolerable on such wide, moderate camber skis. I have Excursions and my wife has T4's and the extra support saves your bacon in sketchy crusty forest descents full of tree bombs! We've been out to Broken Top with friends on their NNNBC rigs and they were floundering/jealous. Heavy gear for heavy snow I say!

[stilltryin]

FWIW, in situations like that, I would grab my Alpina X-Terrain skis and T3 boots (the bindings are 3-pin hardwire, but the wires would be optional). Of course these skis and boots are no longer made, but the ski choice is one that is a strong downhill ski (vs. an XC) to tackle the difficult snow -- your Vectors would qualify I think. The T4 is comparable to T3, but as you say limited (for now?). There are still burly leather boots to be had (thinking Alico, for example). I'm sure you will hear from others. Good luck.

[DG99]

Hmmm. Does sound like Scarpa T4 is the ticket. If I could find any in 27.5. Maybe next fall. I was wondering if there are any new good alternatives for boots etc.

[DG99]

I found this video about this Rottefella system. New thing but if you watch them descending it looks like they are a little sketchy and uneven like the same as with NNN-BC or 75 mm and these fabric/vinyl backcountry boots like the Fischer BCX 675. Not something so great in rough conditions.

[CwmRaider]

@DG99 there are several threads here about the Rottefella Xplore system, also from users. Feedback is so far positive all around.

Supposedly those Alfa Free are really good and supportive. Next winter expect there to be several more options from other manufacturers.

While I'd say that the Scarpa T4 likely provides a more solid DH boot, the Scarpas have an awkward fit for many people. I had mine fitted and liners heat molded and couldn't really say I enjoyed the feeling of them on my feet, no matter how impressed I was with the DH abilities. I sold them at quite a loss, after realising I just couldn't enjoy them for more than a few hours on my feet at a time. I was relieved to take them off.

I never tried the Fischer 675 but the Transnordic are probably the best leather boots on the present new market, from a DH perspective. Torsionally stiff sole; tall, supportive cuffs, and still XC capable, though somewhat inevitably there is some compromise there.

[lowangle al]

Poor snow conditions like you describe are what drove me to plastic boots. First a T2 then a T4 which I much preferred. I recently tried the Transnordic 75 and I thought they handled the K&G on those crappy conditions quite well, having no problem keeping my vectors on track. As far as the downhill, they are not as good as the T4 in crappy variable conditions, but can probably get you down safely if that's your only goal. In good snow they are enough boot and quite fun and I expect they will work with even bigger skis.

If downhill fun is your goal you will have more fun more of the time with a plastic boot.

[Lighturn]

If you realy have hard packed snow all the way, you do not need length. A short, light old funcarving ski (like Atomic 9-11 or blizzard shark and the like second hand) with the Rottefella Xplore is the way I went. And I am happy. The cheap 150 cm short old ski is soft enough to bent trough so you get edge grip. It turns on a dime and its sturdy enoug to take a beating. Just skied it today in 10 cm deep heavy "spring snow". Only backdraw: does by no means stay on track for K&Glide, it wants to go anywhere but straight ahead But great for skinning and DH!

I have the Alfa Skaget with it, and thats a wide large comfortable shoe. I use to have 43 in EU size, but here 42 is by far big enough.

Cheers!

[Lo-Fi]

I think boots are the single biggest factor. As nice as my Alpina Alaska BCs are, my T4 and Excursion boots are in an entirely different league of torsional and lateral support. If you are facing descents on rough washboard refrozen crud, plastic boots will keep your skis where they need to be for safety and will reduce fatigue too.

This is a sort of silly video because of the slow-mo, but I am skiing end of the season thin, refrozen, transformed, granular cruddy snow. I'm on Altai Koms which do work better, despite their greater width, than my Guide/Annum/Panorama 78 skis because of the more proportionally moderate and symmetrical side-cut:



Check my channels as I also have a couple of videos skiing the Guide skis with Alaska BC vs T4s, and I can turn more aggressively with the plastic boots.

[DG99]

Nice ski video!

Probably the T4s are the ticket. I’m always keeping an eye on the leather/vinyl/fabric boot choices though. My Fischer BCX 675 seem good, flexing in the hand, but on skis have surprisingly little control, and flex torsionally and laterally a bit much. Good ankle support though.