Telemark Talk / Telemark Tips Forum

So I'm planning to do some XCD tomorrow (Nansens/AlsakaNNNBC/45mm mohair x-skins)

The temperatures are quite high (~10-20 deg C) and I don't have much experience with skins in such conditions.

In my mind the big problems with glopping / icing up are around freezing / 0 deg C right?

What kind of stuff can go wrong with skins at warmer temps? getting too wet?

Trying to make sure nothing robs me of those precious (possibly??) final turns of the season

Edit: decided to randomly stop by my friendly neighbourhood Asnes retailer over lunch (La Cordée Boutique) and they had some new old stock (old model) 35mm nylon skins on sale for 35 bucks How could I say no?!?

The guy at the store also said nylon will get less wet than mohair in slushy conditions. I guess I can do a lil head to head tomorrow...

No one is picking up the baton, so I will bring my vast experience to bear on this question.

I'm sure you'll be fine. I've ploughed through literal ski-covering water in X-Skins with nary a pause in + freezing temperatures on several occasions... there's nothing wrong with wet skins in those conditions, it's kind of unavoidable really... I crayon mine with Pomoca warm skin wax, and they seem to be fine.

Wet and slushy is actually preferable to cold and hard, being much glide-ier.

Yesterday I noticed that one of my skins was peeling off a wee bit when we got to the top of the hill, and it was a bit wet underneath there (this one is losing a little stick at the back from where I peel them off after a few seasons and I’ve already touched up the glue there before, I should say, I suppose I should do that again soon). I wiped off the water from the base and brushed off the snow from the skin adhesive with my snood thing and stuck it back down and it was firm when we got back to the car (albeit it was -4°C). I've left the skins on and it's still stuck on firmly now.

EDIT: I see you have your skins uncut... it may be worth thinking about trimming to the heel of your boot (but I'm sure you know this). It does make a massive difference.

Musk Ox wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:55 pm

No one is picking up the baton, so I will bring my vast experience to bear on this question.

I'm sure you'll be fine. I've ploughed through literal ski-covering water in X-Skins with nary a pause in + freezing temperatures on several occasions... there's nothing wrong with wet skins in those conditions, it's kind of unavoidable really... I crayon mine with Pomoca warm skin wax, and they seem to be fine.

Wet and slushy is actually preferable to cold and hard, being much glide-ier.

Yesterday I noticed that one of my skins was peeling off a wee bit when we got to the top of the hill, and it was a bit wet underneath there (this one is losing a little stick at the back from where I peel them off after a few seasons and I’ve already touched up the glue there before, I should say, but I don't know if that was why... we just got back from a long trip with no problems). I wiped off the water from the base and brushed off the snow from the skin adhesive with my snood thing and stuck it back down and it was firm when we got back to the car (albeit it was -4°C). I've left the skins on and it's still stuck on firmly now.

EDIT: I see you have your skins uncut... it may be worth thinking about trimming to the heel of your boot (but I'm sure you know this). It does make a massive difference.

Good to know. So not super worried about slush then.

And yeah I've thought about trimming the skins for better glide.

I didn't mention it above but tomorrow I'm going to be strictly up-and-down at a ski resort (~1 hour climb) so I'm much more concerned with grip than glide and can delay the trimming question until next season...

But now that I have 2 pairs I'll very likely start by trimming the mohair pair.

Thanks!

Hot wax your skins. You can either use BD globstopper or a warm glide wax. Crayon the wax into the skins. Then take your iron and make a few passes over it to melt the wax into the plush. Don’t use too high of heat or you might damage the skins.

I specialize in skiing springtime snow.

What I know about skins in wet snow? The glue can fail utterly if you try to stick them to the skis when they are still wet, so dry them first how ever you have to. This can be wiping them with a cloth, or letting the sun work on the bases for a few minutes.

If there are trees around, you can expect pollen- plus all the pollution from the winter- to be on the surface of the snow. After sliding around on it awhile, the bases get not only wet, but covered in pine smelling stickiness that not only ruins glide, but also totally defeats skin glue... even after drying.

I carry a cotton rag, and a flask of Everclear. The Everclear is a very effective solvent to remove pollen, as well as a disinfectant, emergency stove fuel, and the main ingredient for a nightcap.

When your bases are contaminated with pollen, saturate the cotton rag with alcohol and clean the bases. Then dry them- which is very fast with alcohol. THEN, and only then, stick your skins on.

That is what I know. And had to learn the hard way.

Shenanagains wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:24 pm

I specialize in skiing springtime snow.

What I know about skins in wet snow? The glue can fail utterly if you try to stick them to the skis when they are still wet, so dry them first how ever you have to. This can be wiping them with a cloth, or letting the sun work on the bases for a few minutes.

If there are trees around, you can expect pollen- plus all the pollution from the winter- to be on the surface of the snow. After sliding around on it awhile, the bases get not only wet, but covered in pine smelling stickiness that not only ruins glide, but also totally defeats skin glue... even after drying.

I carry a cotton rag, and a flask of Everclear. The Everclear is a very effective solvent to remove pollen, as well as a disinfectant, emergency stove fuel, and the main ingredient for a nightcap.

When your bases are contaminated with pollen, saturate the cotton rag with alcohol and clean the bases. Then dry them- which is very fast with alcohol. THEN, and only then, stick your skins on.

That is what I know. And had to learn the hard way.

… and this is why no one should ever listen to me.

I’ve never had problems going through liquid water briefly, even did this over easter, but it’s completely obvious of course that Shenanagains is correct that water under your skins would be catastrophic!

Pollen is basically a non-issue where I live (69° north near the coast in birch tree land) so I’m totally ignint about that I'm afraid.

Sorry for the misleading optimism, though.

Well Musk Ox, I think you should go out and ski 10-15 K and do some serious thought on the dangers of optimism!

Er, I really didn't mean to trash on anyone else's input!

If you don't live where there are lots of Evergreens, you probably have nothing to worry about. And BTW, I've never had glue fail during use. Just when re applying the skins.

Shenanagains wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 10, 2021 11:49 am

Er, I really didn't mean to trash on anyone else's input!

Oh I didn't mean it like that, heh! I genuinely know next to nothing compared to the vast experience here, that's all!

I actually had a skin flapping off this March on maybe the first proper climb of the year. It wasn't water/ moisture, though... they've been a bit stick-shy on the ends since I first got them, the Race X-skins... I think I simply lifted the end standing about on a hill and it just filled up with snow incrementally and scraped off bit by bit as we shuffled up. Luckily it was cold enough to just take them off and stick a load of wax on.

Shenanagains wrote: ↑

Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:24 pm

I specialize in skiing springtime snow.

What I know about skins in wet snow? The glue can fail utterly if you try to stick them to the skis when they are still wet, so dry them first how ever you have to. This can be wiping them with a cloth, or letting the sun work on the bases for a few minutes.

Oh man... This is what happened. On my second ascent everything was soaking and one came off after an emergency herringbone/wedge to avoid backsliding. I was close to the top so just took my skis off and walked and then laid them out in the sun while having lunch. It's a good thing I had my second pair, I ended up using them on the third ascent.

I also had to really concentrate on technique going up the steeper sections which I never had to do with full length skins. Basically being very careful to only weight one ski at a time, and to *not* use my poles unless I slipped, as a sort of emergency brake. Also, keeping the weight on my heel to get the maximum grip with the skin, and keeping my muscles loose. Eventually I developed this kind of slow motion hop from ski to ski.

As for the skiing, well it was mostly a shitshow...

On the first run I had forgotten my gloves in the car and stupidly also left my jacket in the car on purpose. Needless to say I got a nice number of hand and elbow scrapes on that harsh corn snow. Won't make that mistake again...

Even worse, by the second run (on what was a crowded trail) everything kind of turned into wet slushy moguls on an occasionally icy base. At least I had my gloves and jacket, so the falls were comparatively pleasant

I ended up paralleling on the steeper and bumpier sections and it was ok. On the telemarkable parts I actually made some progress when I realized I needed to tighten my stance to keep as much of my back foot as possible in contact with the NNNBC binding plate to have any sort of stability.

After my "easy" experience last week I was reminded that XCD can be a cruel mistress if the conditions aren't exactly in your favour. On a mostly flat surface with occasional crud patches I can kind of arc/ride the ski through the bad stuff and plan my turns on the good parts. But when it's mostly crud I'd rather have a setup that I can drive and not just ride....

Also, after wondering about it and now having done it twice, "touring" at a resort: thumbs down. I'd rather ride the lifts and get in 4-5x the skiing and save the skinning for backcountry where/when it's actually worth it.