Telemark Talk / Telemark Tips Forum

Hi All,

I am a rank novice living in Finland. Near where I live we have a lot of 'trackless' woods, but also proper cross country trails (done with a machine that pack the snow and cuts the grooves) and lakes where (ice permitting) we have ski tracks. I am mostly interested in the offroad side of things, so I have some Altai Hoks 145, and for next winter I was wondering whether I might add a second, different pair of skis. I am tempted by the Altai Koms, because they seem to be a faster version of the Hoks. Having said that, going on the trails and on the lakes skating around with the skis is tempting... I am committed to sticking to BC skis (ideally waxless) -- how wide is too wide for skating them, and yet using them also on deep snow?

since this looks like your first post, I'll take a shot at a response for you. I think you are asking a difficult question. skating and backcountry skiing are not commonly thought of a something you would do on the same set of gear. on my tele gear and AT gear, skating 20 yards to get on a lift is about as much skating as I would consider doing. the gear is heavy, and the boots are stiff. weight is probably the biggest factor. some of the lightest skimo racing gear would allow you to skate more comfortably, but still not for long distances. ski shape is also a factor. for example, nordic racing skis used for skating have almost no side cut, they are non-directional. you don't want the ski turning when you apply pressure.

your question was: what width is too wide for skating. my simple answer is: its more than just ski width. you really need to think about your entire setup: skis, boots, bindings. I don't think you are going to find a good solution if you want a combination of: skate performance, backcountry and downhill performance. you will be compromising all around. if you are dead set on a solution, all I can think of is skimo race gear. that might get you the closest.

I think the skating performance I'm targeting is 'not too atrocious', rather than good...

Skating my voile V6 (100mm under foot) with x2 switchbacks sucks. I’ll do it for a bit and then quit and just shuffle and wonder why I even tried. Skating objectives (84mm) with 3pins is pretty good, and I’m not unhappy to keep it up for a bit when the opportunity presents itself. Like bauerb said though, there’s not only the width, but the shape (objectives have a little less sidecut) length, and weight that are making the difference. But all that aside, 85mm is my answer to the original question.

I can’t understand why you would want to skate, when you could kick and glide (diagonal stride).

fisheater wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:57 pm

I can’t understand why you would want to skate, when you could kick and glide (diagonal stride).

The answer being in my first statement: 'I am a rank novice'. What is this thing you are talking about? how is it done? how does it differ from skating? (all real questions, no sarcasm)

Hello Federer, I am glad I asked the question. Kick and glide or more properly the diagonal stride, is what skiers do when their skis are in those grooves on a prepared track. I am attaching a link to a video to distinguish between skating and diagonal stride or kick and glide:


Now if you watch that video posted above, you might say that’s not what I want to do or ski in that manner. I can agree, with the caveat as I become a better kick and glide skier, I see where I could be better if I were to implement some more classic training into my technique.
That being said, I think we both want to have is good backcountry technique. To ski through the woods, over hills, across lakes, to enjoy the wild country on skis in the winter. I never have looked anything like the skiers in the video above, but I was very pleased to see my style look closer to the man in the video below. Jackrabbit Johannsen lived to be 111 years old, and he pioneered routes thought the highest peaks in the Adirondack Mountains in New York and throughout the Laurentian Mountains of Quebec. In his time, he was regarded as a father of backcountry skiing in North America. I was quite pleased to see my “style” much more resembles Jackrabbit than the trained classical skiers in the video above. In the video link below Jackrabbit is 100 years old. However if you carefully look at his skiing, you see the style and athleticism that earned him that nickname Jackrabbit.
https://www.nfb.ca/film/jack_rabbit/

So if you and I are are on the same page as to skiing style, types of skis would be another topic, and I am out of time.
If you want to skate ski, I have no knowledge to help.
Regards,
Bob

I kind of agree the Objective would be the best mix, but still, not for real skating any distances.
Learning the different skate techniques will help dramatically as the different techniques are like gears on a bicycle.
I can't remember the name of it but there is one below V1 which is like a granny gear. V1 is like a low gear, V2 higher and so on and so forth.

I also think the scales will slow you down a lot. I tried skating once with kick wax on my skinny edgeless skis and thought I was going to die it was so exhausting.

The people who skate a lot are insane wax nazis as it makes such a difference.

ok, I feel old now. I was a nordic racer during the exact period of time that "skating" became a Thing. Bill Koch was my idle, and he was the skating pioneer. I still remember as a teenager when there was no division between skating and classic. we would agonize over the decision before a race: am I going to apply kick wax or try this skating thing. it was a critical decision, you could glide faster without kick wax, but going uphill or flats...you were all-in without kick-wax. the origins were to leave one ski in the track and skate with the other ski....and ALOT of double poling. obviously things progressed very quickly, but I was there in the beginning....a long time ago...

Hyvä Suomi!
While it may seem strange, I can see where you are coming from when you ask about skating with wide skis on frozen lakes. If the situation is right, I will skate with my Fischer E99 Crown. On very icy mountain tracks, I would use skating if my grip is poor. I don’t see why you couldn’t be able to skate even wider skis than that although I assume weight would become an issue sooner or later.

//Rickard//