Telemark Talk / Telemark Tips Forum

Got some Voile Ultravectors BCs coming. (Yes, spent the big bucks on this rather than a skinny ski.) This will be used for mildly aggressive BC touring..rolling tours....tours with longer approaches...resort skiing with sidecountry traverses...and also quiver of one for longer trips involving air travel. It will be skied mostly with Excursions until I find a lighter 2-buckle plastic boot that fits my feet. The choices are:

1. 22 Designs Tele bulldogs, no longer manufactured, but I have an extra set. I love this binding, the lightness, the easy step-in feature most of all. It tours well enough. However, it does not have the torsional rigidity of a cable binding.

2. SwitchbackX2. I have skied switchbacks for years on my go-to BC skinning and powder resort ski. It is a great binding. But it does not have that ease of use of a step-in, which is a wonderful feature, especially when futzing around a picnic site, putting on/removing skins, or looking cool when emerging from the Eurochalet carrying a cappuccino onto the chairlift.

3. Voile Hardwire 3-pin. I have never used this binding with the hardwires..I have a pair (sans cables, which are about $100 to replace). It barely qualifies as step-in, as I understand the hardwires can be stowed neatly and engaged only when you want (which of course takes bending down, but at that point a stretch is a good thing.) I suspect - but don't know - that they would provide greater torsional rigidity than the bulldogs.

Please help me decide. Thanks.

In my experience the telebulldogs work real well with that type of ski but are not very durable. IMO sbx2's are overkill for that setup but regular sb's work well. 3-pin hw's would work well too although I prefer the free-piviot vs 3-pins for climbing.

connyro wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:50 am

In my experience the telebulldogs work real well with that type of ski but are not very durable. IMO sbx2's are overkill for that setup but regular sb's work well. 3-pin hw's would work well too although I prefer the free-piviot vs 3-pins for climbing.

? do the x2's not K&G as well as the original Switchbacks? (which do not K&G as well as the bulldogs)

Baaahb wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:29 pm

connyro wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:50 am

In my experience the telebulldogs work real well with that type of ski but are not very durable. IMO sbx2's are overkill for that setup but regular sb's work well. 3-pin hw's would work well too although I prefer the free-piviot vs 3-pins for climbing.

? do the x2's not K&G as well as the original Switchbacks? (which do not K&G as well as the bulldogs)

Sbx2 k+g just as well as the regular sb's but add .5 lbs per foot. Also with soft boots like the Excursions, the sbx2's extra 'power' is imo wasted on low cuff soft boots. Overkill.

What I found with the X2s was that with my T2s I had to loosen the cuff to get the range of motion I needed for K&G where I didn't have to do it with SBs. It wasn't as noticeable with my T4s but it must have an effect. Also like conny said it's probably overkill for that ski but if you like the feel of the X2 it would be OK and IMO pairs well with a soft boot.

I had one pair of Vectors with SBs that I used for skinning, so I used the free pivot, it was also good for K&G with wax. On my BCs I had HWs which I used as a three pin for a couple seasons but realizes I liked the feel of the heel cables for turns. It's a pita to put on, as you have the pins and bail and heel throws to deal with but it is a very DH capable binding.

Eventually I put a Voile 3pin cable on the HW riser for weight savings but it didn't tour well. I ended up putting a Riva binding on the HW risers and never looked back. I think any old cable binding with the 3 hole pattern will work on the risers.

The other thing about the HWs is that you can use them with leather boots which work well in soft snow with vectors.

I don't know about the bulldogs but the choice between the SB and HW depends weather you value free pivot or the ability to use leather boots more.

With no knowledge of the effects of force moment, Hook's Law, or Young's Modulus (you know the site for that), I have to say the one difference between SB and SBX2 is the pivot point. The more rearward pivot of the SBX2 makes it harder to lift the heel, ergo less neutral, more active, and all that might entail. So the K&G would be harder, though that's not something I look for in these bindings. I have SBX2s but unmounted, have toured SB a lot. I do often put them in downhill mode when touring, mostly for the benefit in things like lifting skis over logs and other thicketeering. They are also ok for stride-and-glide.

Full confession...my Excursions are oversized, so maybe not fair, but my overwhelming impression of their soft plastic is how energy transfer from my incredibly powerful movements results in plastic deformation rather than ski response. IMO, using more active binding to go from you to the ski wouldn't help.

lowangle al wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:08 pm

I don't know about the bulldogs but the choice between the SB and HW depends weather you value free pivot or the ability to use leather boots more.

I'm gonna go with door # 2, Monty, but the bulldogs are still fighting for the lead. Free pivot is great for breaking trail but not for K&G, IMO. And leather flexibility would be nice; only the hardwire gets me there.

I'm familiar with the difference between 2 and 3 buckle plastic and could of course use 3 buckle plastic at times. I could take the SWBKs off my BD Converts, put them on the Vectors, and put the SWBK 2 on the Converts, but that seems like a lot of work and all that time in the garage could deplete my beer supply.

I ski mostly rolling hills, so I purchased a 3-pin Hardwire years ago. It has more power than I need for my T-4. I mount my binding heel piece a just slightly behind where the heel throw engages the heel. That way the heel throw stays firmly engaged on the binding heel piece (riser) when doing the kick and glide. It’s not perfect, sometimes it does pop off.
Good luck, with the new skis.

Baaahb wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:27 am

that ease of use of a step-in, which is a wonderful feature,

3. Voile Hardwire 3-pin.

Baaahb, 3 pin hrdwr is further away from step-in than you are from the moon.

twopass wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:21 pm

Baaahb wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:27 am

that ease of use of a step-in, which is a wonderful feature,

3. Voile Hardwire 3-pin.

Baaahb, 3 pin hrdwr is further away from step-in than you are from the moon.

That's true twopass, but I think Baahb can do it if he loosens his belt and takes a few deep breaths before hand. If he is dizzy after the first boot he just need a little break followed by more deep breaths. It works for me anyway.

Baaahb is a three pin guy anyway and may decide to remove the hard wires until needed. This can be accomplished by installing them with the hooks upside down. The only downside to installing them this way is that they can fall off during transport.