Telemark Talk / Telemark Tips Forum

I stripped them of all traces of glide wax.
Then ironed in Swix Polar grip wax into the entire base- including the good 'ole Omnitrack.
Went out this morning with Swix Green corked into the kick zone- from heel forwards.
WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have always had a thing for the Karhu Guide/Annum.

But- I have never found the scales had enough grip in very cold deep winter snow.

Why have I never grip waxed a scaled base before?!?!?
I don't know- I just don't know!!!!

They were absoutely sublime today:
40 cm of dry, cold fluffy powder snow over a good 2 metres of frozen consolidated base.
Moderate slopes and rolling terrain- stuck mostly to my own woodlot.

I have come to realize that my recent dissatisfaction with the Guide/Annum as an XCD ski is primarily a grip issue...

I had an absolute blast on this ski today.
I am prepared to walk away from glide wax on my backcountry Nordic touring skis...

That is very inspiring. Thank you for that. I have always wanted to try it on my 10th mountains and now I'm motivated further. So when you ironed the wax into the scales it didn't gum up the scales?

LC a couple of days back the boys headed up into the gonz to try out the e109's....One of the things that happened was Telekid and Teleking...did was pick up Telewheels Objectives and were blown away by the weight of the skis and binding....How any body could use them for cruising was unbelievable....Telekid told Telewheels to get on his old Guides and get rid of the Objectives....As did Teleking....There is no way that Telewheels will do that....But the idea that you are doing to the base....and the idea that some skis are just not a good BC ski doesn't very often penetrate....Objectives are good on the down for many....but it is surface skiing....Skinnies open up a different sub-surface way to ski...Few across the fall-line turns and far more head them down with sub surface arcs with out losing speed....Man when I see Telekid and Teleking doing this I just grin....It's a beautiful thing...TM

TreeFallin wrote:That is very inspiring. Thank you for that. I have always wanted to try it on my 10th mountains and now I'm motivated further. So when you ironed the wax into the scales it didn't gum up the scales?

Hey Treefallin!
It did not gum up the scales.
I dragged the wax on to the entire base and then ironed- let it cool- then buffed with a cork. I had to buff with the cork in one direction over the scales to reduce wear and tear on the cork.

Grip wax melts very differently than glide wax. I got a very even thin layer of grip wax over the scaled section that I did not even need to clean up.

My plan is to expect to be able to rely entirely on the scales- as per usual- when the snow is warm enough to require a soft kick wax that would definitely gum up the scales and be time-consuming to remove.

If I avoid soft kick wax I may be able to avoid having to strip the bases.

The performance of this ski in cold, deep, soft snow was VASTLY improved.

The Annum (and the Epoch) continue to be very well made reliable designs- and they are VERY reasonably priced. I have always been frustrated with the lack of grip during the heart of cold winter snow, and have always wished for a waxable Guide/Annum. I really don't know why I did not consider grip-waxing waxless-scaled skis before...(We have a couple of pairs of both the Annum and the Epoch. I don't find the Epoch any better on consolidated snow than the Annum- and the Annum offers considerably better flotation- so the Epoch is used by the light and growing members of my ski clan.)

On another note- the hard-grip-wax (Polar) base offer much better wax retention on the cheap extruded base of the Madshus XCD skis, than hard glide wax. Over the years I have wasted a lot of money glide waxing these cheap bases.

I have now stripped all of my waxless BC-XC skis and am planning on using Polar on all of them as my base wax.

The NEXT move is to strip my Koms of glide wax and do the same. My Koms have been almost useless this winter- due to lack of grip. The Kom is actually a better soft-snow downhill ski than my Storetind- well, not "better", just more playful and smeary. But- I can not get adequate climbing traction with the Kom on cold, deep, soft snow- and I certainly do not have enough vertical in my local hills to want to bother with climbing skins on the Kom...So- why not grip wax the Kom? Without resolving the lack of grip issue with Kom it will continue to sit on the rack most of the time...
..........................
I am starting to strongly consider a wider powder downhill ski for my local backcountry hills and ravines...
The combination of very steep slopes and dense mature forest makes skiing this terrain an almost exclusively mid-winter, cold soft snow thing...It really is just too dangerous to try and ski these steep forested slopes when the snow is difficult...

My Storetind performs best downhill when the terrain and snow allow me to charge on them- effectively keeping them on moderately-steep slopes. This is fine- I have a lot of this terrain to ski on.

But- I also haved access to some really sweet very steep terrain- combined with forest stands with open understories- that set themselves up with both an ideal base and hero snow on top by mid-winter...I want a modern downhill powder ski for this terrain at some point, but I need enough grip to be able to efficiently ski laps on these slopes as the vertical tends to be in the 100-250m range and I wuold like to avoid constantly taking on and off climbing skins. And scales are just not enough grip in that cold soft snow...

Lately, I have managed to climb to climb some truly amazingly steep slopes with just grip wax on my Ingstad BC/Storetind. And, the Asnes kicker-skin attachment provides a very quick method of getting that extra grip when you need it.

Having better grip with the Kom will definitely increase its use in my local hills. I may end up discovering that the Kom is exactly what I want. Or- at least- it will help me make a decision if I come to the point of wanting a Voile V6 vs. V6 BC vs. Asnes Fjoro 92...

The Epoch is my widest touring ski that actually tours well and I love how the ski tips behave. I have heard the Annum is where the touring forward stride starts to wander too much to the side (sidecut) bit I don't know as I never bought a pair. But considering how much I love the Epoch/10th Mtn I was always fondly curious about the Annum/Guide

That's good to know LC, I've been doing laps in cold sugar type snow and my grip has been lacking. I'm getting where I want to go but the scales seem to need a little help. I have been corking polar on all my skis for years and have also been corking it into the scales for the past two seasons with good results. I can see that a slightly softer kick wax on the scales could help grip without affecting glide as long as temps didn't drop significantly.

LC I think I would go wider than the V6 for a dedicated powder board, at least 105mm, especially with your quiver. While a scaled ski may be more versatile, if you could get by using kick wax you would have a lot more options and probably for less money. I just got a pair of Voile Insanes from tele turn around delivered back East for 60 bucks.

TreeFallin wrote:The Epoch is my widest touring ski that actually tours well and I love how the ski tips behave. I have heard the Annum is where the touring forward stride starts to wander too much to the side (sidecut) bit I don't know as I never bought a pair. But considering how much I love the Epoch/10th Mtn I was always fondly curious about the Annum/Guide

The degree of sidecut is identical between the Annum and the Epoch, and the camber and flex is pretty darn close as well. If you like touring with the Epoch, the Annum will behave the same in terms of XC tracking (and feel equally dead on consolidated snow).

The Epoch certainly at least "appears" to be a touch more cambered than the Annum, but at my 185lbs I certainly cannot feel any difference underfoot, in terms of camber and resistance. The Annum is really just a wider version of the Epoch and that makes a huge difference in deep soft snow. The Epoch is plenty wide for light skiers, but IMO it does not offer enough float for anyone over 160lbs and with its soft tip, single camber and round flex it suffers from severe "pool cover syndrome" when XC skiing in deep soft snow.

lowangle al wrote:LC I think I would go wider than the V6 for a dedicated powder board, at least 105mm, especially with your quiver. While a scaled ski may be more versatile, if you could get by using kick wax you would have a lot more options and probably for less money. I just got a pair of Voile Insanes from tele turn around delivered back East for 60 bucks.

Thanks for this Al.
I will consider this.
I am no rush on this front.
It would be cool to be able to test both an upper 90mm vs. a 105+mm powder ski in similar conditions with a similar boot and binding...
For example, I would really like to test a Voile V6 vs. V8!

I would definitely lean towards a waxable base...In my local climate, the snow is typically cold when very steep forested slopes can be skied. None of my scaled skis have yet proven to be enough to efficiently do laps on that cold snow and steep terrain (though my recent experience with grip-waxing scaled skis...)
You and Connyro and others have reported excellent cold soft snow climbing with the Voile Vector BC though...
I too once tested the Vector BC against the Guide/Annum and the S-Bound 112- the Vector BC outclimbed the other skis big time.
I keep thinking that if I go Voile that I should strongly consider a scaled base- especially if I am willing to grip wax it when I need the extra grip.
The Access-Skin on the Asnes line is very attractive as it offers a very quick attachment of skins...

The context is doing laps in steep forested terrain, with 100-300m verticals.
I have just grip-waxed my Koms. I am going to get out on that hero snow with the Kom before Spring skiing starts!

TreeFallin wrote: I have heard the Annum is where the touring forward stride starts to wander too much to the side (sidecut) bit I don't know as I never bought a pair. But considering how much I love the Epoch/10th Mtn I was always fondly curious about the Annum/Guide

My two cents...about wandering skis in the forward stride...well this is a very subjective matter as some are content dealing with tons more wandering than others. Plus, wandering depends not only on the ski parameters but the snow conditions as well. For example, I find my Asnes Ingstad skis wander way beyond my acceptable limit on hard packed snow but stay fully focused and aligned on soft snow. It seems the soft snow creates a track that keeps the skis in check.

So...personally I have found the Epoch ans the Fisher Boundless too much of a wanderer to my liking for hut to hut touring or distance oriented treks whereas I am satisfied with them for yoyoing. A similar elder ski, the infamous oldschool Karhu 10mth tour with a 68mm waist and 82-84 or something tip does a much better job of keeping a straight line and so hits the sweet spot for combined long tours (including harder packed snow) and downhill fun (mostly on soft snow). To my the Ingstad is the modern ski that mostly ressembles that karhu.

So yeah. If staying on target is the basic idea on a long tour with windblown landscapes...the Fischer E99/ Asnes Gamme is always a great partner in my mind. Plus, if the chosen length is not exaggeratedly long, in the lower limit of the recommend length and combined with 3 pin bindings and a sturdy leather, they are sweet fun on the down as well.