Waxless skis, wet snow, F4 and...skins?

[phoenix]

Still getting accustomed to having a waxless ski as my go-to, and was in this scenario the other day: Temps in the low thirties, wet snow, so I wiped some F4 (think Maxiglide, for those unfamiliar) on the waxless pattern, buffef it, and off I went. No snow sticking to the bases at all. Conditions, and the climbing capabilities of the Objectives worked well fot the tour and turns.

But, what if the route were steeper and/or longer, and sking were desired? I wouldn't be inclined to have the skin glue in contact with the non-stick compound. Nor would I want to be balling up and scraping my bases every 50 yards. How do you folks deal with it?

[Woodserson]

I never really worried about. I use maxiglide and let it sit for a bit and then buff it off. If the terrain warrants apply the maxi-glide at your height of land when you begin the descent. (goes without saying)

Should I have worried about it? Hmmm...

The Fischer integrated skin applies right onto those scales, and they don't mention a damn thing about it.

One thing I've noticed is that the more I use a pair of skis with scales, and the more I hot wax the glide sections, the less I have to maxi-glide the scales. I *think* the powder from the scraping/brushing/buffing of the wax ends up getting on the scales in some way and sticks around, much like how the linoleum tiles under my ski-tuning bench are slick as snot now if I'm in stocking feet. Way dangerous, need traction. I could be imagining this (the scale part not the floor part).

This is a great question, actually.

[phoenix]

Lilcliffy? Lowangle? Anybody else have feedback on this one?

[Lars]

I just got some skins for my E88s, but I haven't had a chance to use them yet.

On my last two outings, I used F4 on my scales and Swix spray on grip wax on the tips and tails. Also did this to my gf's 68s. She commented that it seemed to be helping.

These trips were 5 miles or under. I didn't reapply. Tips and tails were still noticeably sticky to the touch after we finished for the day.

Definitely felt like it helped, glide and climbing were great, but I don't have much to compare it with.

[connyro]

I've used skins with my Vector BCs (and Guides before that) and have never once worried about the glue interacting with the glide wax. Maybe I should have worried, but I've never really noticed the skin glue degrading specifically in the area where the scales are. I usually hot-wax the tips and tails, and then sort of crayon the hotwax onto the scales, then quickly run the iron over them (one direction) and then brush. Or, if I'm using paste wax, I'll apply to tips and tails and a very thin layer on the scales, never going against the scales, and cork it in (one direction on scales.)

People will apply skins right over kickwax without really worrying, as long as you cork the kickwax in really well. THere was a discussion about this on the original TTips, but I don't remember the deets.

[lowangle al]

Like conny said there shouldn't be any issue with skins on F4. As far as warm wet fresh snow that sticks to your bases I don't know if F4 prevents that or not. I've switched from the F4 to Polar wax from tip to tail including the scales. I didn't want to spend eighteen bucks on another can. It's been working well in cold and dry snow but haven't had any of that wet clumping kind of snow lately.

[Woodserson]

I've switched from the F4 to Polar wax from tip to tail including the scales.

This is an interesting idea that I thought of and then forgot about. Why not cork polar wax into the scales in such a way that doesn't fill them up like hot-wax, but will prevent snow from sticking to them in almost all temperatures where you'd want scale skis, and then forego the limited longevity of the F4/Maxiglides?

So would you consider it a success, Al? Recommend?

[lowangle al]

Yep I recommend it, this is the first season I've done it and no negative affects.

The last time I used F4 on my vectors it killed their glide. I think I should have reread the instructions though. Buff it in you say.

[phoenix]

I never worry about skins over kick wax, and on the waxless I hot waxed tips and tails with Swix CH8 (a warm snow glide wax), and don't worry about that either. I only use the F4 on scales, as mentioned, and only when the snow's wet/sticky, and it is effective for that. I never would use it on cold snow, then it does slow you down. I'll try the polar corked over the scales and see if that eliminates the balling up issue, I'd rater not use the F4 at all.

Thank you folks, for the ideas.

[paulzo]

Have used skins over maxiglide manytimes, no problem. However my bottle of maxiglide is around 30 years old zo the formulation may have changed since then.