Telemark Talk / Telemark Tips Forum

I am looking for some help from the gurus. I have a jigarex and mount my own bindings and recently put a pair of outlaw X bindings on my 183cm Armada TST EvoAIR skis. What I didn't realize is that the Outlaw shares pin line with the AXL and the Outlaw X shares with the Vice. After mounting, I realized that I my boot center is 5mm forward of alpine center. I did confirm that the skis are marked alpine center at 83cm from tail which aligns with Armada's website recommendations.

When I ski them, they feel alright, but I don't know if they could feel better. I have only been tele skiing since last season, so I don't really have the senses to know when something is spot on or could be improved.

I noticed that the 22D holes are all evenly spaced, so if I drilled one more pair behind the ones I have, I would have a mount at essentially -33mm from center. Since I use inserts, I would probably leave the +5 and the -33 in this scenario, but I don't know if that is just plain stupid. Of course, I could fill all of my holes and start over, but I can't get directly at center now, as it would be too close to the existing holes.I'd be left going to -5mm or -10mm from recommended. I'd certainly prefer not to drill a whole new set of holes.

Perhaps being at +5 is really no big deal and I am overthinking the whole thing?

I reviewed this post, but am still left wondering what I should do: viewtopic.php?t=10

Hey SR,

I honestly wouldn't bother... 5mm is really nothing at all... No one could detect a 5mm difference on snow, except maybe Olympic SL and GS racers. Minus one or two centimeters would be even better for tele, but not everyone would notice the difference... My point of view is that if it's not problematic, don't change a thing...

By the way, this is THE single main reason why I will stick with Freerides forever... Because of the adjustable plate. This feature is just priceless for me. I couldn't live with a binding that cannot be adjusted after being mounted. Not so important for BC or FS skis, but for carving, once you tried adjustable plates, there is no turning back.

Thanks!

The 22d website makes a similar allegation that 5mm would go unnoticed by anyone, but it makes me feel better to hear it from more people.

Nonetheless, adding the second mount is as easy as 3 more holes. Would there be value in having a second mount back 33ish mm for softer snow days or am I then using the ski differently than how it was designed?

I think that adding more holes isn't worth it, even to have a second mount for powder days. Even with inserts I feel like more holes are just more hassle without much gain. You can't ever put a hole back to what is was before.

5mm isn't even a 1/4". Don't worry about it. If anything it will help you get up on and pull your tips around slightly faster. Not a bad thing. Boot center is just a general starting point and less scientific of a matter than you'd think. Going aft of boot center .5" can help inside ski tips float in powder (kinda with soft boots and non-active bindings), but it comes at a cost of turn ability on groomers IMO. You have pretty active bindings; it won't matter. That inside ski is going to tip dive somewhat in powder .5" minus or plus. Not a problem if it is lite no matter how deep. If it is deep-n-heavy you'd be better off and have more fun paralleling and surfing anyway.

As for insert spacing, there isn't going to be an issue if you did decide to do inserts .25" to .5" aft of your already drilled holes (OD to OD). Once the inserts are in, if done properly they become the structure of the ski, meaning they aren't like an open hole weakening the ski. In fact that is a major point of using inserts; you can have multiple mount points or different binding mounts set up for a same ski.

Although I wouldn't recommend it, the pair of skis I ski on twice-a-week over two seasons have: holes plugged from Meidjos, holes plugged from Outlaws, and holes used for now mounted AXLs. Two mid mount holes almost overlap (as close as an 1/8"). That is a lot of friggin' holes, and I ski pretty hard. I thought they would snap in two by now but haven't. I have another pair of same said skis that have Dynafit Speed Radical inserts and AXL drilled inserts. Both are K2 Pinnacles, which are known for having weak top sheets underfoot. Not a problem.

Thanks, Harris. That's helpful. Coincidentally, I also have a pair of Pinnacle 88's which I set up after these and put inserts in. At that point, I knew about the big issue so I got the mount right. Holy crap the construction of the pinnacles is junk! The top sheets scratch if I look at them wrong, one of my bases got a 6" tear the first day out due to soft base under fresh snow on the side of the trail, and K2's information about the construction is almost impossible to find details on. That said, they ski great! But I digress.. it seems like the consensus is that I should just leave the TST holes where they are and put some inserts in.

syntheticreality wrote:Thanks, Harris. That's helpful. Coincidentally, I also have a pair of Pinnacle 88's which I set up after these and put inserts in. At that point, I knew about the big issue so I got the mount right. Holy crap the construction of the pinnacles is junk! The top sheets scratch if I look at them wrong, one of my bases got a 6" tear the first day out due to soft base under fresh snow on the side of the trail, and K2's information about the construction is almost impossible to find details on. That said, they ski great! But I digress.. it seems like the consensus is that I should just leave the TST holes where they are and put some inserts in.

K2's have always been that way; the motorcycle equivalent Yamaha of skis. Junk build but they somehow defy their quality shortcomings and yet work really well. I'd like to try out those 88's.

I have the same setup - Outlaw with TST. I've been experimenting with various mounting points because mounted at the line just didn't feel good. After 2 mounts I ended up putting a shift plate on so that I could move fore and aft easily to experiment. I ended up settling about 1.5 inches back and like them pretty well. I'm 190 lb, ski heavy, and have been freeheeling for 25 years. Trust your instincts if they aren't quite clicking for you. The skis already have holes, you might as well drill more and enjoy the skis.