Telemark Talk / Telemark Tips Forum

MikeK wrote:Very nice Muggs.

Just FYI - if the edgeless XC skis aren't doing it for you, there are plenty of skinny metal edge skis out there. They are quite a bit heavier but I actually like them better for skating.

Yep. I've got the E89 or E99 on my list. Without getting too off topic in this thread, I wonder if anyone's tried Binding Freedom/Quiver Killer inserts on skis like these.

mugglesport wrote:
Yep. I've got the E89 or E99 on my list. Without getting too off topic in this thread, I wonder if anyone's tried Binding Freedom/Quiver Killer inserts on skis like these.

No - but any particular reason why?

MikeK wrote:

mugglesport wrote:
Yep. I've got the E89 or E99 on my list. Without getting too off topic in this thread, I wonder if anyone's tried Binding Freedom/Quiver Killer inserts on skis like these.

No - but any particular reason why?

To switch between NNN or NNN-BC for on-trail and light-duty off-trail and 3-pins for more rugged/steeper terrain. I know plenty here use NNN-BC in all conditions and historically lots of people have used 3-pins on-trail, but I'm just wondering out loud.

Probably just easier to have two sets of skis.

mugglesport wrote: To switch between NNN or NNN-BC for on-trail and light-duty off-trail and 3-pins for more rugged/steeper terrain. I know plenty here use NNN-BC in all conditions and historically lots of people have used 3-pins on-trail, but I'm just wondering out loud.

Probably just easier to have two sets of skis.

OK - this is what I figured you might say.

Switching between NNN and NNN-BC is doable, I believe the hole pattern is identical, but I find I can ski just fine on-trail with my NNN-BC boots. In other words, I don't have a need for a lighter pair of boots. They are plenty flexible and give me good support. I guess you could compare this to wearing hiking boots vs. trainers for the dog path, but unless you are running, you might not notice much difference.

Now I'm sure someone will correct me, but I don't think 3 pin and NNN hole patterns match up, and you'd probably have to stagger the hole pattern unless you used the Voile risers. Not impossible, but ideal either.

I don't find 3 pins offer a significant advantage for either of those skis with leather. That's just my opinion. They are miserable dh skis anyway, so my guess is using them with your plastic boots will offer little advantage.

I figured all that. I was implying choosing one system binding (either NNN or NNN-BC...not switching between the two) and then switching between one system binding and one 3-pin binding. I assume (maybe wrongly) that the screws for NNN-BC and 3-pin don't line up. So you'd need 5 screw inserts for each 3-pin binding (3 for toe plate and 2 for heel riser) plus however many screw inserts would be needed for the system bindings. The skis would look like swiss cheese.

This is clearly a terrible idea

No it's not bad - like I say, I think they are different, but you'd have to mount the pin and bar lines different perhaps (maybe not ideal) or use a riser (maybe not ideal for a K+G ski).

My 0.02 would be go NNN-BC and don't look back. But if you already have a pair of NNN boots you like, and had a pair of leather NN boots you wanted to swap, it might be worth looking into.

Also if you plan on skating much on groomers with them, go waxless. You can always toss wax on for traditional or BC.

I bought mine waxless because I mostly ski them in warm, wet ungroomed glop on flattish terrain. They are skate-able on groomed stuff but much slower than a wax base would be. Also, I'd tend toward the e89 width if you can still get it. It really does skate much better than the next size up.

Intriguing. I've never skate skied (other than on my alpine skis at a downhill resort) but have thought I might enjoy it. The typical recommendation for skate ski sizing is 10-15cm shorter* than classic skis, so would you go shorter or longer on E89s if you wanted to be able to use them on-trail (mix of skating and K&G) and on some low angle backcountry? Or split the difference?

*I found this equation (Your Height in Inches X 2.6 + 5 = Approximate Skate Ski Size) which equals out to 203cm for my height. Based on my weight (205-210 lbs) I should be on 210cm skis for classic. So maybe 205 would be the ticket.

By the way, sorry for taking this so far off track (pun intended). I should've started a new thread.

I can move it to a new one. I have the power

Umm - I think for skating it has to be what feels right for you for actually getting in that position. Over 200 is not ideal for me, but my e89s are 205, and I can skate them. I have them mounted on balance which is a ways back like a traditional XC ski would be. As long as I can get them splayed out and stride, I'm good. I don't do a lot of skating anymore, so I erred toward the side of traditional.

Going 195/200/205 is splitting hairs to me. If you want the fastest traditional K+G, go long. If you want maneuverability (and I mean like steps and stuff) and the easiest skate-ability, go short.

Having just done some inserts in my skis, I'd offer the following advice:

1. When mounting them on (in?) a pair of Voile Chargers, I had to drill so deep I hit the base. If the XC/BC skis your thinking of putting them in are thin, you might reconsider.

2. Tapping the holes is required for inserts. Not sure what the construction of XCD skis normally is, but if it isn't solid wood and some layers of glass (at least) I probably wouldn't do it.

Finally, I have no idea what BC-NNN hole patterns look like, but the 3 pin binders from Voile can be either a 3 hole pattern or a standard 4 hole tele if you get the one with the riser.

Anyway, just my two cents. Also, the price of inserts is probably close to a pair of three pin bindings....

Ah, one other thing. Switching bindings and using the same holes in the ski (just in the wood, not inserts) is probably good for one swap, MAYBE two. I'd use a lot of epoxy on the second one.

Good points mainer... especially on the solid wood part. Depending on the year you use, the Fischers may have hollow spots. Hard to tell if you will hit one or not... guess it's just luck.