Telemark Talk / Telemark Tips Forum

Reading through this forum convinced me to buy some of these Alico March leather boots for super cheap, some Fischer waxless skis, and get into a bit more XCD - until now I've been exclusively focused on downhill-oriented touring, but now the fiancée is learning to ski and tour, so we're sticking with some pretty mellow terrain at first.

I've toured once with them so far, and had pretty severe pinching in my toes whenever I would drop a knee, especially above the big toe. The leather bends down into the tops of my toes, and the leather is so stiff still that it really affects my ability to make any kind of turns - I just can't get low enough.

Is this normal for the first little while with new, stiff leather boots? Should I try to soften the leather above the ball of my foot, or just lunge around the house more?

I've attached some photos of my right foot so you can see how the leather is bending around the toe box.

Unfortunately there is no cure for this, that I know of. I came across a pair of Arkos leather boots, with a buckle and they ended up doing the same thing. After countless attempts and a few painful days of skiing I dropped them off at the local thrift shop. My reasoning behind this is people often buy the wrong sized shoes, especially ski boots. They break in to the poor fitting foot and there you have it. Toe pinch. I tried everything from a heat gun and Obenaufs boot grease to stuffing it with news paper and heating the leather.

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I agree with Sam (welcome BTW - and welcome dropknees).

Herein lies a giant problem with this obscure form of skiing. Leathers can be the most wonderful thing you ever put on your foot (for comfort) or the most horrible nightmare ever. They can skin you, pinch you, cramp you and make you never want to ski again. Plastic boots can do this too, but plastic shell boots have the advantage that they can be reworked and shaped, and the liners padded, shimmed and molded.

Take my words with a grain of salt, but I almost want to always tell someone, if it seems too good to be true, it probably is. This in context to used boots, old models for cheap on eBay, or other screaming deals. You might get lucky, but the odds are against you. Some boots are not well designed - just because they have a Vibram sole and a Norwegian welt doesn't mean they are great boot. I've kind of found in most cases, those boots tend to be a little less forgiving and the more modern boots actually conform and flex better. WTBS, I've still had a pair of current production Alpina NNN-BC leather boots pinch the heck out of my toes and give me blisters on the tops of them. I have another model from Alpina which gives me no issues whatsoever.

You can try some things to break those in and soften them up, and maybe stretch the toe box a bit (might be tough with that rubber rand, which I bet is one of the issues with that boot) but I'm very much inclined to say this, and this being from my personal experience: cut your losses and buy a different boot. Life is too short to ski with ill-fitting boots hoping one day they will work.

Not sure what direction you might want to go, but if you are a dh guy, a pair of light, two-buckle plastics might give you enough touring freedom and give you piece of mind you can modify the hell out of them and maybe get them to fit right if you have an issue (I'll tell you there, no guarantees).

You could also spend near the same amount of money on a really nice, modern leather boot that most likely won't hurt you if you get the sizing right. There are lots of people on this forum with lots of expertise and experience on how many of these models of boots run for sizing and how they fit.

I'd suggest if you want to stay old-school, and stick with a Norwegian welt, go for the Crispi Antarctic. It is available in North American through Telemarkdown and it seems to have a nice, pliable upper that will conform to your foot.

Hope that helps. Please ask any more questions you might have and provide us more info on what you are trying to do. I assure you'll have fun on those skis if you get this detail figured out.

This is, as Mike alludes to quite strongly, a fit and boot issue. You really need to try the boots on to make sure that their normal flex point matches your foot. If it's off, it's going to be no fun. My feet are ever so slightly different sized, and my left Crispi Antarctic would fold just a few mm forward on my foot and it was no fun. A slight foam shim later in the aft heel pocket and no more problems. The nice thing with leather is that they will soften and break in over time, and soon they will be amazing. It takes time, it takes some effort (by going out) and it takes a good fit from the start.

Coincidentally, modern boots that have rigid rubberized/plasticized scuff guards and other baubles can be problematic as well... they can pinch in the wrong spot and then you're REALLY screwed because that stuff is never going to break in over time.

+1 on the Antarctic, but the Alico's aren't baloney either.

Good luck, stick with it one way or another.

What size are you?

I agree with the comment about the scuff guard - looks like that might be part of the problem - whether it will break in at some point or not I don't know as I don't have any experience for that.

It's a nice boot for a great price if it breaks in - cheap to find out. I'd do some sno-sealing of them to work the leather a bit more. I see they only come in whole sizes. Usually I am 10.5 and EU 44 so right about in the middle - what is your experience on their size - big, small or on the mark?

Another option would be the Alpina Alaska: http://www.orscrosscountryskisdirect.co ... -boot.html

Leather boots have to fit correctly and still they have a long break-in time. Saddle soap can help soften, but obviously can't fix a size/fit problem. Mike mentioned plastic boots which are also a good option. I ski on the softest plastic boot ever made (Scarpa T-3/ brown/ first generation). You could probably find these used (cheap) at some second-hand shop?

Well they are new...Boots especially (and footwear in general) needs to be broken in/fitted to perform ideally.

The forefoot-laces look very loose in the pic, tounge is sitting crooked too. Lace them puppies up tight and walk/wear me around the house for a couple hrs. Once the leather in the toe/ankle regions softens up from use they should form to your foot more

Try wearing them with as many pairs of socks on as you can. At least in part, the leather initially breaks or creases in the area of least resistance, which is where there is an area of volume that is not supported. That is often in the toebox, over your toes. If you can fill up that space, you might help displace or spread out the crease so it's not in one sharp place. If you can get the boots to crease in other places and loosen up, breaking over a larger area,that might mitigate things. Layer your feet up, squeeze them into the boots and walk around the house for a few hours. You could also try glueing a layer of neoprene inside the boot, under the crease.

yikes, this could be a total loss - at least they were cheap surplus boots! The only thing I would try is get a stretcher and try to blow out the toe box area as much as you can. If you can create some extra volume maybe the leather can conform better. But it looks like the rubber rand (horrible, unneeded "feature" IMO) and a stiff toe protector piece are forcing the leather to crease in on your toes. I had a pair of old Merrell leathers than did this to me on one foot, had to get rid of them, fortunately I got them cheap.

Here's the stretcher I use:

http://www.footfitter.com/p/101-002/foo ... tcher.html

Second the recommendation of Crispi Antarctic. Way higher odds of them fitting & conforming to your foot. It's a softer boot than the Alico Ski March, very nice quality leather and workmanship which is what you're paying for, a little more $$ than surplus.

Hi, welcome to the forum. Like others have said they may be a total loss, but maybe not. You didn't mention that they pinched you while kick and gliding, so I assume they don't. I am guessing that you are low, knee to ski type skier. If this is the case it is possible that if you ski with a high tight stance they may not pinch. My experience is that the skinnier and straighter the ski the more you will benifit by being high and tight.