Telemark Skimo racing (was: 3-pin Racing)

[iBjorn]

Hi, I am considering to get Rando race skis for doing some fast traverses and perhaps participating in some races.

However, is the mounting area large enough and strong enough to handle the load from the 3 screws of the 3-pins. Weighting in at 78kg and skis on T4s and Excursions so the load on the binding will not be extreme, although probably higher than those by tech bindings.

Any ideas or experiance on this?

Best regards
Björn
Sweden

[Johnny]

Hey Bjorn!
Welcome to the uncoolest forum on the planet!

I remember having issues mounting 3p on my Ski Trabs... Couldnt get enough bite... And I was skiing them with leathers, minimum load... But it will depends on the ski itself...

Inserts and helicoils are your friend... But another solution would be to use a Voile or G3 riser plate... It would turn the 3p mounting pattern into a wider 4 screw pattern... Spreading the load more evenly and increasing the chances of screwing into something solid... But some of them can be quite 'heavy' for a rando ski...

What skis are you buying?

[iBjorn]

Have not totally decided yet, still considering either a superlight set-up with rottefellas and race skis, or Fischer Transalp 80 with LiteDogz binding. The race skies are tempting, but they are a lot €€€ and they may not hold for the force of telemark, hence my questions of this.

At the moment I mainly skis with Völkl Qanik + LiteDogz, decently light at 1820g/each, also tours on Rottefellas/E99 with rottefella risers at approx 1200g. The transalp/litedog combo will be approx 1500g.

I almost fell in love with the Fischer AlpAttack (650g), unfortunatly the front binding area seems to be too small for (any?) telebinding (area=6.0*'5.5cm). Have also been looking at Dynafit PDG´s which are reasonably priced - although a bit heavy at 790g/each.

Inserts I agree is a must, have ripped a few 3 screw cable set-ups with T3's in the nineties. The Voile riser plates adds too much weight IMHO, so I think it is better to move to LiteDogz instead if I need 4 screw mounting.

[Rodbelan]

I tried the Light Dogz and 3 pin on K2 Sahale—very lightweight mountaineering ski... Works fine, don't worry too much. But I am lighter tthan you—130 pounds...

[Johnny]

I had a very good deal on a new pair of PDG earlier this season... But I hate Dynafit, I just couldn't do it. Plus, their skis look so horrible. I like the Transalps much better... In fact, I'm planning to get a pair next season, but I still hesitate between the 80's and Atomic Ultimate 65s, which are lighter than the Transalps (695g) and skinnier... Pretty much the same ski as the Alpattack but easier to find (and a bit cheaper) here in NA...

Litedogz are great... Pretty much the coolest 3p binding ever made...

I only ski with floppy leathers so for me inserts are not necessary. One thing we don't always realize is that with plastic boots, of course applied force is much stronger, but also rocker launch can help ripping the bindings very fast. When I was still using plastic boots, I used to rip a lot of bindings... But just adding a higher heel would solve the problem...

[iBjorn]

Thanks for the answers, I just finished a rebuild of a pair of old Fischer Rebounds. With simple 3-pins and televates, they ended up at approx 1300g each. Will use them as intermediate skimo exercise skis on hard pack and groomed pistes, although I never liked skiing downhill with fishscales due to the increased drag and noise.

I really love my LiteDogz, but besides the weight the regular 3-pins have a slight edge with less pivoting resistance when touring compared to the Dogz. I weighted the 20mm Voile riser plate tonight, at 172gram/ski (without climbing bars) they weight as much a Rottefella 3-pin. If the 3 screw mounting doesnt make it for me, I will rather go with the litedogz instead of using Voile risers - since the weight is approx the same, and the downhill control of the Dogz is superior.

I also have been trying transitions (Skis->backpack, ski->skinning, etc) and the plain 3-pins actually feels very fast to work with...as long as the pin holes of the boot sole is clean or not filled with mud, I actually wonder if the pins is faster than tech bindings.

Please share more experience on skimo race/fast traverse tele equipment.

[iBjorn]

I had a very good deal on a new pair of PDG earlier this season... But I hate Dynafit, I just couldn't do it. Plus, their skis look so horrible. I like the Transalps much better... In fact, I'm planning to get a pair next season, but I still hesitate between the 80's and Atomic Ultimate 65s, which are lighter than the Transalps (695g) and skinnier...

How did it go for you, did you end up with Transalp or Ultimate 65?

[anemic]

I love this discussion. I am unable to contribute anything meaningful, other than a request to please keep this dialogue moving forward.

I have the same curiosity about light tele being as good as light carbon skimo race equipment starting with the skis wth 3pin. I'm glad you are exploring this.

The Transalp caught my eye too, last season, but I could not find a pair in the US. I am curious as to how they ski. Thanks.

[telemarkmark]

I guess there is not enough meat in a lightweight Rando ski to take a tele binding.
I to fancy doing a Rando (Skimo over here in Scotland), but realise teles are not going to win against 'proper' kit, that said I actually suspect I will come in first in the Tele - Vet class (ie only me!) & last overall!!
I am using a 20 year old Alpine ski, picked up at a charity shop, not that heavy one binding removed, curiously only just within minimum width for Skimo skis. Fitted with 3 pin binding. It is a simple and tough ski. Gave it a try a couple of weeks ago, faster up hill than all the young dudes on their fat ski, I even managed a turn or two. Unfortunately snow now melted away and last weeks race cancelled.

[iBjorn]

Yeah, I do agree. With todays rando/skim equipment a tele skier don't stand a chance. Equipment is one issue, but the main problem is that tele skiers rest their legs going uphill and rando people rest their legs going downhill...however, skiing is for fun and in that sense tele always wins.

Nonetheless, I have tried both my Qaniks with LiteDogz quite extensively now as well as the old Fisher Rebounds with 3-pins. The 3-pins give slightly less resistance going uphill and both bindings are as fast or even faster in transitions than regular Rando 2-pins, as said the main problem is the massive amount of lactic acid in the legs at the end of the downhill.

Nevertheless, yesterday I received a pair of Transalp 80 that I will mount LiteDogz on, and they will be my main tour and skimo ski.

And if UPS don't mess up, I will get my new shiny pair of Atomic Ultimate 65 race skis tomorrow. Which I will mount plain 3-pins on, and use in very, very, very perfect snow conditions and vertical races (when there is only an uphill part). Hopefully, I will at least get some days on these Ultimates before I break them...I am a little skeptical on mounting tele bindings on hollow ultra-fragile carbon sticks...but I have to try...