Telemark Talk / Telemark Tips Forum

I know there are many differing opinions on this, and lots of contention one way or the other, but a recent discussion got me thinking....

Does skiing with leather (or any similarly floppy boot) make you a better skier? Mainly for the fact you need very good balance and pressure control to ski even the easiest of slopes.

Or does it make you less aggressive, more cautious, ski lesser terrain in easier conditions, use survival techniques or other hacky maneuvers?

It's a question for the ages. I have to say I truly think I've become a better skier. You may not think that seeing me ski what I normally ski, but I'm willing to bet if I went back to Alpine I'd translate a lot of what I used to take for granted skiing with all the boot/binding rigidity and put it to good use.

I'd also say my second question above is very prominent in my skiing. So are both true?

But anyway my opinion doesn't mean shit. I'm only speculating and haven't actually tried, but I know a lot of people do.

There are people on this forum who ski both modern Tele gear and old school XCD style stuff. What say you?

Personally I have no aspirations to go back the other way and really find out, but some people may... and some people may also wonder if their struggle is worth their while, if in fact it is a struggle.

PS We know what is easier. That's not the question. What makes you a better skier on any equipment or any terrain?

Good question Mike. I would like to think that learning on light gear will make you a better skier, as that is what I learned on. But I think that learning on heavier gear will make you a better skier sooner.

It's easier to get centered on light gear, and it is more critical that you are. On heavier gear the stability you get from the boots compensates for not being centered. You can go a lot faster and steeper on heavier gear with a lot less falling even with less skills than on light gear.

Before you master skiing on light gear you will need to master "The great save" and for as long as you ski light gear you will need it.

I think in the long run switching from one type of gear to another will make you a better skier. ( forget alpine gear though but don't forget P turns)

It is beneficial to be skilled on all weights of gear because there are all types of snow conditions and terrain.

I guess I just don't see it going the other way. Is someone that can rip with fixed heels and stiff boots going to be able to jump right on leather and skinnies and rip? Unlikely at best. Would venture the same even if the heel is free. Now going the other way, say you could really rip it on leathers but have never skied plastic stuff... seems to me it would be pretty easy if not immediate to pick up. Seems like a lot of people who started Tele way back took that path and they are all probably better skiers on plastic stuff today because of it.

It seems a lot of people that were maybe decent skiers on Alpine kit or even Heavy Tele will struggle a bit or have to pretty much relearn on XCD to XC stuff.

Just my observations. It doesn't seem to translate both ways.

Also another thing I've been thinking of doing is going to rent some NTN equipment. I want to see if I could jump right on that and ski parallel/Alpine style as good as I can on green/blue runs. I tend to think I could with very little learning curve, if any. I think if I went to steeper stuff I'd get in the back seat from getting the over-the-bars feeling of having the free heel, but I don't know?

I also suspect, that having never Tele'd with that equipment, I could at least be smooth on greens and maybe even some easy blue runs using Teles. I doubt I'd be carving race lines, but I bet I could make some clean, round turns right off the bat.

I really want to test that hypothesis. Maybe next year.

Ripping on alpine gear is probably better experience for learning free heel skiing than xc, epecially if you plan ripping on that. It would have been nice to know what a carved turn felt like before trying to do it on light gear. It also would have been nice if I was used to skiing steep slopes and carrying speed and how to navigate the mountain before doing it on my XCD-GTs.

I think the learning curve going from light gear to heavy gear would be quicker than the other way around. When I stepped up to my early T2s that had a low cuff and were pretty similar to excursions it didn't take much adjustment at all. It was more of an adjustment going from the T2s to a four buckle boot for me. I had to figure out how to preasure the boots to get my weight on the skis and stay centered at the same time.

I think that someone going from heavy tele to xcd would catch on pretty quick but they would have to learn some new tricks when the snow gets bad.

Why go rent ntn stuff when you have the TM22s. I would consider a T2 or even next years T4 with the thermo moldable liners over the excursions espesially if you want to do P turns.

TM22's fell through. Never wound up getting them.

I've been debating NTN now. I'd definitely try it first. Don't know that I could justify the cost though, even used. Also don't really want to tear up my knees... mine are not the best anyway, never have been.

I think you are probably right that skiing both is best. It's just more skiing, and more little techniques to transfer.

This year just has me a little bummed. I had some great time skiing when I got to ski, but it just wasn't much. Mother nature did not provide... I guess that's the way it goes.

Really when I think about resort skiing I get a little edgy. Riding lifts with strangers, icy snow, kids and dickwad adults, feeling trapped in that you can only really go down... the whole thing still urks me a bit...

Mike the most important thing on whatever nordic gear you are on is practice and winters like this suck. If you made it a point to go the resort with tele gear 5 or 6 times a season it would transfer big time to XCD.

I know how you feel about the resort, especially back there and on the weekends. I would get there when they open and ski hard until throngs show up.

Too bad about the atomics that was a fun ski. I would stick with the duckbill though , lot more used stuff around, unless Johnny is selling his, hell he should give em to ya.

Yeah... I'll decide something for next year... too many skis right now and not enough days to ski them all.

REALLY want to get my wife going. If mama is a better skier, then more of my skiing is challenging skiing. If she's not having fun, then no one is.

You need your boss to give you a day off on a powder day once in a while.

I take the day off if we have a big dump. Not an issue.

We had exactly one this year. I took the day off. I probably could have went and skied something cooler but I barely could get to where I went, the whole town was shit-show. They literally shut down the expressway for the first time ever!

MikeK wrote:I take the day off if we have a big dump. Not an issue.

We had exactly one this year. I took the day off. I probably could have went and skied something cooler but I barely could get to where I went, the whole town was shit-show. They literally shut down the expressway for the first time ever!

Geez, you guyz did not get dumped on yesterday?