Altai Kom skis

[lilcliffy]

This is all very awesome stuff...

Woods- can't wait for your perspective on the Kom- it is in my future as well- and with the same setup...

LOFI- I am with Mike- I would love to read more about you, your kits and your skiing history,

PERHAPS start with a review of the Altai Kom for us???

[Lo-Fi]

PERHAPS start with a review of the Altai Kom for us???

I can't say much more about the Kom's than my previous attempt at a description, above. However, MikeKs question got me thinking and so recently, after 4 consecutive days of skiing the same glade with the Koms, I reverted back to my beloved Guides. Still fun and functional, but they really don't have the same pivot/rotation action. I actually caught my front edge a couple of times trying to force a turn with the Guides, trying to use the same dynamics I would have easily used manoeuvring the Koms. All of a sudden, the Guides felt like I was skiing my relatively turn-resistant 10th Mountains!


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[connyro]

I've had the opportunity to mount 3-pins on and ski the Koms in 162cm with Excursions. I cannot help but compare them to the Vector BCs or V6 BCs due to their dimensions. There's a few of us on these types of setups up here (fattish scaled skis, light bindings/boots). The consensus is that the KOMs, while light, maneuverable, climb well, tour well, and turn quickly, they are not in the same class as the Vectors/V6s. Koms are short, and I feel that they don't rour quite as well as Vector/V6 BCs. The Vectors tip comes out of the snow much easier than the Koms. On the descent, the Koms don't plane up on the snow like the Vectors, and they don't climb as well as the Vectors. The Koms don't have much tip rise to them when compared with the Vectors/V6s and the flex is different as well. Our skiing on this type of setup consists of touring/exploring out to the hills, doing several laps and touring home, usually 8-10 miles round trip, so there's lots of K+G as well as turns.

[Woodserson]

The tips of the Koms don't come out while touring or on the descent?

I think if I was using Koms it would be for local, quick laps, like what LoFi illustrates in his latest vid. Anything with miles of approach would be the Vectors, no doubt.

[connyro]

The tips of the Koms don't come out while touring or on the descent?

I think if I was using Koms it would be for local, quick laps, like what LoFi illustrates in his latest vid. Anything with miles of approach would be the Vectors, no doubt.

Not like the Vectors/V6s. Last week, bushwhacking and breaking trail in deep, dry, cold snow, the Koms tips were staying under the snow and occasionally got lodged in brush/debris while Vectors/V6s came right to the surface, mostly due to the greater amount of tip rocker on the Vectors/V6s.

[MikeK]

I'd assume length has some part of that as well? 180ish vs 162?

[connyro]

I'd assume length has some part of that as well? 180ish vs 162?

Maybe. I'm more referring to the tips of the two skis. The Koms are a traditional looking tip with little (if any) discernible rocker. The Voile tips seem to "want" to come to the surface while the Koms need some guidance.

[lilcliffy]

I've had the opportunity to mount 3-pins on and ski the Koms in 162cm with Excursions. I cannot help but compare them to the Vector BCs or V6 BCs due to their dimensions. There's a few of us on these types of setups up here (fattish scaled skis, light bindings/boots). The consensus is that the KOMs, while light, maneuverable, climb well, tour well, and turn quickly, they are not in the same class as the Vectors/V6s. Koms are short, and I feel that they don't rour quite as well as Vector/V6 BCs. The Vectors tip comes out of the snow much easier than the Koms. On the descent, the Koms don't plane up on the snow like the Vectors, and they don't climb as well as the Vectors. The Koms don't have much tip rise to them when compared with the Vectors/V6s and the flex is different as well. Our skiing on this type of setup consists of touring/exploring out to the hills, doing several laps and touring home, usually 8-10 miles round trip, so there's lots of K+G as well as turns.

I very much appreciate that you have compared them to the Vector and V6 BC. The kit you are using and the application- "XCD tour for turns"- is exactly what I would use them for. I must say I am disappointed to hear about the lesser performance of the Kom...Especially considering that you and I- if I recall- are of a similar weight- meaning that we actually weigh something. Which leads me to my thoughts and questions...

I am not surprised about the difference in camber and flex pattern between them...I would suspect that the Kom- at least in a XC application- would likely perform better on a denser base than the Voiles- just because the Kom has a more traditional Nordic camber and flex. I have not examined the Kom- but I have examined both of the Voiles and I have done a similar tour to your description on the 180cm Voile Vector BC, in the high and steep uplands of northwestern NB (500m verticals, and steep terrain). The Vector BC- as you describe- have a fully-rockered tip, with a low-profile alpine camber, and flex pattern perfectly designed for soft BC snow. The Voile Vector BC floats so effectively on truly deep soft snow that the rockered tip rocker is very effective when XC skiing.

As far as the effectiveness of tip rocker...In my limited experience, the effectiveness of tip rocker in a XC context is GREATLY related to flex and effective flotation in particular. If the ski itself is not floating effectively on the snow- the tip rocker is simply a liability, as the tip tries to rise to the surface while the rest of the ski is sinking into the abyss. As an example, in truly deep snow, the tip rocker on my E-109 leaves me constantly "skiing up a hill", even on the flats. With the Eon it is even worse- because the Eon's tail is softer than the E-109- both the tip and the tail of the Eon float higher in the pow than the waist- leaving your downward Nordic "kick" down in a "pit of despair" ("Don't even think of trying to escape"- Princess Bride quote). In truly deep snow the tip rocker of the Eon and E-109 is useless when XC skiing- though wonderful in a downhill turn.

Which finally leads to- forgive my longwindedness- my actual question...

How would you compare the effective flotation of the 162cm Kom to the other two skis- assuming it is the 180cm Vector BC? Does the Kom float as effectively as the Vector BC? And if NOT- do you think that might be a significant factor in the lack of effective tip rise with the Kom? And if so- I wonder if the 174cm Kom would make a siginifcant difference in flotation and tip rise?

[connyro]

LC, I see it as a combination of tip rocker and tip flex

Obviously, the 162 Kom does not float like a 183 V6 given the same skier mass.

I know what you mean when you described "in truly deep snow, the tip rocker on my E-109 leaves me constantly "skiing up a hill", even on the flats." I've experienced this a lot with our type of snowpack and XC setups with stiff skis.

The Koms seem a bit stiffer in the tips than the Voiles. I notice when breaking trail, the tip of my Voiles flexes upwards with the stride in the snow instead of resisting it. I think this allows for the underfoot scales to grab that much more effectively. The Koms are stiffer and tend to plow directly into the snow.

[Lo-Fi]

I'd assume length has some part of that as well? 180ish vs 162?

Maybe. I'm more referring to the tips of the two skis. The Koms are a traditional looking tip with little (if any) discernible rocker. The Voile tips seem to "want" to come to the surface while the Koms need some guidance.

Unless they are scaling the materials and construction directly to the length, all other things being equal, I would think the length and thus leverage on the ski's flex would be a significant factor.

Ive only skied a couple of runs on the Vector BCs, and I never did an A-B comparison to the Koms, but I can easily believe that the Vectors have more rocker and tip rise. I don't know if this video gives a discernible sense of the Kom's shape and flex, but they certainly didn't feel like they had as much tip flex as the Jaks and Guides, although they do have some more built-in rockered shape:



The Jaks could have just kept flexing, whereas the Koms flex a little and then stop. What is cool though too on the Koms, is that when you flatten the ski's slight camber, the front end noticeably rockers up a bit on its own.
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