the Nordic Ice Skating Thread

[tkarhu]

I have to applaud an undertaking even more absurd than telemark skiing.....telemark skating!

Snow melted, so I am nordic skating. Luckily you can do telemark turns also with the ice skates

Linking turns is difficult on a zero gradient ice, so the turn ended with a hockey stop. However, nordic skates are real skinnies, mine have 1.25 mm waist and zero sidecut!

I have Zandstra NIS skates in 43 cm. That is blade length, whereas other manufacturers report frame length. So a Zandsta NIS 43 cm is actually 45 cm in length.

I think longer blades are better, when you have wind gathered snow piles on ice, or soft spring ice. The longer blades prevent you from falling on your nose there. However, on cracked ice light skates can help to find balance, when a skate gets stuck in a frost crack. I envy longer skates for the soft ground settings.

If you want the best, FYI many hardcore nordic skaters have Skyllermark blå (blue) skates.

[CwmRaider]

The 75mm binding is wide and the binding may touch the ice when you try to go fast.

How much wider, and how many degrees of clearance is lost?
Per photos above, my guess is over 45°, at which point the 'binding touching the ice' would not be my main concern.

I think you can reach the 45 degrees rather quickly - google image search "speed skating". I guess with nordic skates, it depends on how fast you want to go.

I had a pair of nordic skates as a kid. Not unlike these:
https://www.viking.nl/en/catalog/skates ... ng-ii-low/
They were the "low" model and I touched the side of the shoe on the ice all the time. Stronger skaters wanting to go faster used higher skates which allowed longer kick - but which also required stronger ankles.

[telerat]

Can nordic skates be mounted with 3 pin? Or would that be too sloppy of a connection?

Was it @telerat who tried this? The 75mm binding is wide and the binding may touch the ice when you try to go fast.

You are correct. I have mounted skates with 75mm (both Super Telemark and also tested Riva 3), NNN (non-BC) and modified mounts to allow for Xplore on Lundhags T-Skate. 75mm is okay if you dont' want to go fast, i.e. don't let the skate go far out, because if you do then the binding will touch the ice on Isvidda, and I think also on Lundhags T-skate (the height of the skate will decide the possible angle/deflection). My wife thinks they are fine, but I found when making the most powerful kicks that the binding just touches the ice and the skate slides out, which is not nice. I'm also not fond of the small play in the 75mm 3-pin interface, both for skating and skiing, but it is not a deal breaker. If I only had 75mm boots I'd mount a 3-pin binding and try it out.

Both Xplore (with Alfa Skaget) and NNN with combi boots (Fischer RC5 combi) works well, but I recommend a sturdy boot for beginners and some practice before making longer tours; the foot/ankle tires much quick on the first outings. Regular NNN skating boots should also work very well. The drawback on NNN-boots is the plastic'y sole that can make them very slippery on ice and hard frozen ground, so a rubber sole is very nice. Crampons can be nice to have for hiking on slippery ground/ice. I very much like my Alfa Skaget, which are nice for both biking and hiking to where I skate. I also like a flexor in the bindings for a clap skate action, and the normal flexor feels right both on NNN and Xplore. I will now also try the hard flex on Xplore, but assume I'll prefer det regular flexor, as I also preferred the Super Telemark instead of Riva.

Ordinary ski poles can be good to bring for the first outings if it is long since last time or you have little skating experience. A helmet and other protective equipment can also increase security, confidence and enjoyment. Remember to read up on safety and be prepared; always ice claws at a minimum. Apetor from the Youtube video unfortunately died skating in November 2021, but I feel that some some of his stunts were quite extreme. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apetor

Good luck. I think Nordic skating is awesome when the conditions are right.

[CwmRaider]

Out with Lundhags T skates, Alfa Free and Xplore with hard flexors. Not breaking any speed barriers but I was very pleased with the overall results
My skates were previously mounted with NNN-BC, remounting them to Xplore required a bit of drilling, and threading three holes. It was quite a quick job but would have been impossible without proper tools.
Also the price of the Xplore binding is higher than the skates themselves at RRP. In retrospect I could have mounted a standard NNN binding to use with my skating boots, but generally Xplore boots offer more support.

[mca80]

Could you mount a voile 20mm riser on there so as to have some extra clearance for angling the skate with Rotte ST binding?

Am tempted to get a pair of skates since lakes are starting to freeze now with no snow anywhere nor in forecast. Doing some research on the different brands/models but also trying to determine which boot/binding system would be best.

I have a pair of Rossi Combi boots NNN and think the ankle cuff would be useful, but they're still fairly flimsy boots and nothing I would want to walk any distance in, so kinda defeats the purpose. For NNNBC I suppose I would consider getting a Svartisen for the buckles/reinforcement, but they aren't cheap. I have two relatively low cuff BC boots in Crispi Hook and Alpina 1600 (a bit stiffer). Lastly, 75mm, I have Bre and Ski March and was thinking about getting the Alico Double anyway, which has a strap over instep and added stiffness of liner. There are millions of lakes I can drive to and hike 100 ft to get skating, but part of the allure is skating some lakes that require a 20 to 60 minute walk, in which case I want a decent boot for that. That or just carry the blades and boots in a pack while in hiking boots, but switching boots, and into cold boots at that, and carrying them sounds like a bad idea.

[telerat]

Hi @CwmRaider, what lake where on? Do you prefer the stiff flexor for skating? I have actually not thought about or tried it as I find the normal flexor very nice, but may have to try now.

I was at Gjevillvatnet (middle of Norway) yesterday. 6-10+ cm of smooth ice, but not all of the lake had ice thick enough for skating. I am looking forward to skiing, but this is extremely nice too:

Regarding mounting @mca80 a Super Telemark or Voile 3-pin could work fine and I'd just try that first. It didn't work for me, but at least three that I know personally thinks it works fine. If you find that you need extra clearance, I'd try a Rottefella 10 mm rising plate or Voile 3-Pin Cable Traverse Riser to avoid adding more height and instability than needed. The the holes on skates usually fit the Super Telemark binding, but the supplied screws are likely too short for risers. You may also need some washers to increase head diameter. Drilling new holes for 20mm risers would likely also be easy.

Walking in normal warm boots and switching to either Nordic/touring skates or hockey skates when you get to your destination is also fine, but not optimal if hiking between several lakes. Also check up on security tips for ice skating and stay safe. Many have drowned going through ice and going alone reduces safety margins. Good luck.

[mca80]

Thanks @telerat. Regarding safety I have read a bunch and will get all the necessary tools. I need to research more how lakes freeze (i.e. the whole process, and where thin ice is likely) and will almost certainly only skate nearer the shoreline, especially as I will be alone. Whenever I have skied lakes I have never gone far from shore just out of irrational fear, despite seeing snowmobile tracks in the middle of some lakes.

[CwmRaider]

Hi @CwmRaider, what lake where on? Do you prefer the stiff flexor for skating? I have actually not thought about or tried it as I find the normal flexor very nice, but may have to try now.

I was at Gjevillvatnet (middle of Norway) yesterday. 6-10+ cm of smooth ice, but not all of the lake had ice thick enough for skating. I am looking forward to skiing, but this is extremely nice too:

Theisendammen, it's a short distance from home. Busy usually but I was there before the crowd. Many lakes around are frozen but I needed to stroll junior for no more than 1,5 hours total. He wakes up and wants food with clockwork regularity. envious of your trip to Gjevilvatnet

[tkarhu]

Could you mount a voile 20mm riser on there so as to have some extra clearance for angling the skate with Rotte ST binding?

I would not be concerned about binding cables hitting ice. Nordic skate blades are maybe 30 mm (or more) high, and the movement range of legs is not generally as big as in speed skating. In mordic skating, you do long distances. Regarding that, nordic skating technique aims at saving energy.

My main point here is that your skate blades act as risers. Yet I am a NNN-BC guy also on nordic skates, so I do not have first hand experience.

I will be starting my nordic skating season tomorrow pWe’ll see if we have enough ice, and not too much snow Hiking can also be part of a nice nordic skating experience, so it will be nice anyway.

[telerat]

I think we will end our skating season here on Wednesday with a snow coming. The ice skating season here has been quite good, although a bit unstable and slow in the beginning.

@tkarhu as I mentioned in previous posts, I had my 75mm Super Telemark binding hit the ice on strong strides and (at least felt that I) had to restrict my strides, but I never had a proper slide out on them. I have also tried cable bindings (Riva 3), but liked the 3-pin better. I now use Xplore and like that the normal flexor makes the skate return to the boot instead of dangling. I assume NNN-BC works similarly and I know many have used that system on Nordic/touring skates.

Thanks CwmRaider. I didn't recognize Theisendammen, even though I have been there a few times. The many skate track should have made me think of it. The trip to Gjevillvatnet was awesome, but you need to be comfortable with clear ice less than 10 cm thick and know to read and test the ice. There is a Facebook group for Trøndelag called Stålisgruppa if you want information on ice and places here.