The NNN/BC Truth Thread

[CIMA]

That's not a problem.
The truth includes both positives and negatives.

[Raventele]

That's not how it works at all ! Over here we have the truth, and then there's the Conservative Truth!

[CIMA]

Raventele,

Anyway, try real NNN(SNS)/BC and show us your miraculous skiing on good snow with an angle of 30 degrees at least. Since you're a good XCD skier already, skiing on NNN/BC must be a cinch.
Then start your criticism from a more objective point of view like Steve Barnett did.

For now all of your comments here would be perceived just as deskbound discussions or sour grapes.

[CIMA]

MikeK,

Are you there?

After all those Nordix videos, I wonder if normal NNN/SNS has already had enough strength and reliability. What's more is for sturdier NNN/SNS for BC.

Of course, there are supports by the ridges on the binding plates for lateral movements. However, the grooves of the boots must have derailed sometimes.

[video][/video]

I look forward to comments from an engineering viewpoint, not that of alchemist.

[TeleMarcin]

^^ Yea, but, as I mentioned before, the differences are marginal..The BC version is, no doubt, a tiny bit tighter and more laterally stable. A bit bigger bar and clamp..That's about it..Screws etc appear to be identical..
But perhaps someone with the BC version could do the same basic twisting "test" I did on my XC skis and post the results for us ?

Raventele it is a bit compromising that you do not see the difference between NNN and NNN BC/SNS XA. Also from what you are writing it appears that you do not have the sufficient mileage spent on NNN BC gear to fairly comments its abilities and weaknesses.

[Teleman]

Telekid started out on nnn sns and I tried them way back when....They could NOT get the job done as we wanted....So we went to pins....mostly without cable....That's all folks and that's the truth...And truth as a Northeast Kingdom pinheaded pinner...TM

[Raventele]

Raventele,

Anyway, try real NNN(SNS)/BC and show us your miraculous skiing on good snow with an angle of 30 degrees at least. Since you're a good XCD skier already, skiing on NNN/BC must be a cinch.
Then start your criticism from a more objective point of view like Steve Barnett did.

For now all of your comments here would be perceived just as deskbound discussions or sour grapes.

Right , except for the 100's of hours I have spent using NNN for XC and doing every possible turn I can manage -- at the Nordic center, at the sledding hills and, of course, in my backyard. (If there is a big difference in lateral support/stiffness, you can show us with a few simple pix to contrast with those I already posted, Cima!!)
I dare say it seems you have not spent a similar amount of time on pins -- not even the old flimsy-bail
version! So what are we left to think of your pins critique, if we judge you by your proposed sour-grapes standards ?

And BTW, it would be easy for you to show us a lateral stiffness/ resistance test on NNN/BC just as I did with NNN.
And I doubt you will!

In any case, I have said all along that System gear may work and be a lot of fun, but only under a pretty limited range of conditions and with a fairly long list of qualifications, and that's right in line with SB says!

My contention , clearly, is that it is much easier to achieve downhill control skiing pins (esp. 3pc) and that pins for XCD are simply more stable, laterally stiff, more durable and will make for fun skiing in conditions where System gear will be a pretty miserable experience..

[Raventele]

NNN/BC tried to kill ..the METAL!!!

[video][/video]
And they were thrown to the ground!!!!

[Johnny]

I tried them way back when....They could NOT get the job done as we wanted....So we went to pins

Oh Teleman, that is the old pinhead way of saying things. The "truth" would have been:

I tried them way back when.... WE could not get the job done as we wanted....So we went to pins

Speaking of truth, I think the XCD concept is going too far here. As previously discussed, plastic boots, whether it's T4s, Excursions or others are ABSOLUTELY NOT XCD. They never will. So there's no point arguing over it. Anything with cables is not XCD either.

[Raventele]

^^ Oh that's just great.. Now we have a standards of XCD committee ?
Truth is people have been squabbling over this definition for as long as anyone can remember.
So a guy going overland with T4's , Outtabounds and pins is not doing XCD but people who mainly climb closed resorts to poach a few turns on the latest System gear are ? Hmmm , let's think about that!
If you go cross country and downhill, you are DOING cross country downhill.. Religion enters when you elect to say that this gear or that is only for the "true" believers..
And every gear and skill combo fails at some critical juncture -- just ask SB, the highpriest of XCD!