Meidjo Release, Maybe, Maybe NOT

[lowangle al]

Stephen, I just think you can blame the Meidjos and the big stiff boots that go with them. Slow twisting falls w/o a release was a problem from the beginning. There was a lot of discussion about it on the web, probably 15 or twenty years ago. The system is so rigid, that when something is going to give, it's probably going to be your body. All of the rigidness can give you more precise control, but it's not too forgiving. Do you think the same kind of fall on your xcd gear would have resulted in the same injury?

I want to add that I think those 195 x 118 skis were too big for a guy your age and experience level. Shorter skis are easier to ski and are more forgiving. At this point in your telemark journey I think more forgiving gear is a better choice than more precise gear, to prevent these types of injuries.

Good luck with your recovery.

[Manney]

Stephen, I just think you can blame the Meidjos and the big stiff boots that go with them. Slow twisting falls w/o a release was a problem from the beginning. There was a lot of discussion about it on the web, probably 15 or twenty years ago. The system is so rigid, that when something is going to give, it's probably going to be your body. All of the rigidness can give you more precise control, but it's not too forgiving. Do you think the same kind of fall on your xcd gear would have resulted in the same injury?

I want to add that I think those 195 x 118 skis were too big for a guy your age and experience level. Shorter skis are easier to ski and are more forgiving. At this point in your telemark journey I think more forgiving gear is a better choice than more precise gear, to prevent these types of injuries.

Idk about discussion on the web 15-20 years ago. Accident prevention tips after the accident? Had your chance to make your points in 2021. Didn’t. Oops.

https://www.telemarktalk.com/viewtopic. ... gle#p42332

Experience? Oregon skiers have seen more slope + snow in the past year than you have in the past ten. It’s real ski country. Age? If Stephen isn’t younger than you… not likely to be much older.

[lowangle al]

In hindsight I wish I had mentioned something about safety that would have clicked with Stephen and steered him more towards a 75mm binding and lighter boot. Unfortunately something I read maybe 10 years before wasn't on my mind when giving Stephen my opinion, and I don't know how widespread of a problem it was.

The thread was probably on the original TTalk forum and that info is lost. If you are interested in slow twisting falls and release problems with NTN go ask over at the EYT forum where you will probably find some people familiar with it.

I admire your tenacity to do the research to prove me wrong. Like when you were up all night researching the weather in Pa to try and discredit me over at EYT.

[Manney]

Telling a guy that you were aware info that would have prevented serious injury is lame… not the best time for that confession. Otoh, if it presents an opportunity to show expertise in a 50-50 hindsight sort of way… golden.

I’ll bite. What’s an eyt?

[JohnSKepler]

Stephen, I just think you can blame the Meidjos and the big stiff boots that go with them. Slow twisting falls w/o a release was a problem from the beginning. There was a lot of discussion about it on the web, probably 15 or twenty years ago. The system is so rigid, that when something is going to give, it's probably going to be your body. All of the rigidness can give you more precise control, but it's not too forgiving. Do you think the same kind of fall on your xcd gear would have resulted in the same injury?

I want to add that I think those 195 x 118 skis were too big for a guy your age and experience level. Shorter skis are easier to ski and are more forgiving. At this point in your telemark journey I think more forgiving gear is a better choice than more precise gear, to prevent these types of injuries.

Good luck with your recovery.

As long as release systems rely on inertia and springs there is always going to be a part of the envelope where there is going to be insufficient inertia to pop out of the binding but enough inertia, given some arbitrary geometry, to to pop a biological structural element. This is the basic 'theory' behind the application and effectiveness of martial arts in which little guys destroy big guys with pressure points, holds and of course the famous, and infamous, five finger death punch!

I blew my ACL a few years ago in a fall identical to that described by @Stephen though I was on Alpine bindings. Since then I've learned to Tele ski because it is statistically safer and as @lowangle al alludes to above, lighter weight gear with a free heel is inherently safer. I also went to Meidjo to reduce my chances of further injury so hearing about @Stephen's injury just adds to the pucker factor.

For this reason, and as an engineer up on current related technology, I can foresee a new generation of release mechanisms that use inertial navigation sensors (MEMS accelerometers and gyros) and strain gauges to effect a release using some kind of electronic means. I would be very, very surprised if there aren't people out there working on these right now. In fact, as that engineer, I've got an approach in my head that I think could be made to work but, there will be many different ways of doing the same thing.

I think it will prove to be impossible to make something 100% safe but my gut tells me that safety could be improved by a factor of 10 with such a system. It could greatly reduce the size of space outside the envelope as inertia would no longer be a factor in effecting the release, only in sensing when a release would be needed. And manufacturers would love my design. Binding makers would get to sell a sacrificial part to skiers and get that all-important continuous revenue stream! Binding fitters could charge us to tailor our release based on many factors besides the current DIN setting. And aftermarketers could develop and sell smart phone apps that would let us alter whatever settings we wanted. As long as you remembered to charge your batteries skiing would become as safe as walking down the street in a safe city.

[Manney]

Good points. It worries me when I see kids, freestylers… skiing backwards. Bindings not designed for this use. Falling back is one of the easier ways to pop knee ligaments. Free world though. Ppl need to know what their getting into. Most don’t.

Fav moments in history… crank DIN all the way up on a worn binding, buying skis because they’re hot in the chat groups instead of suited to conditions, letting skis get out of tune to the point of grabbing or spinning out, not getting bindings serviced by someone who knows how, home mods on the release mechanisms, frankenbindings.

Skiing is a thinking man’s sport. Only for some tho.

[lowangle al]

Telling a guy that you were aware info that would have prevented serious injury is lame… not the best time for that confession. Otoh, if it presents an opportunity to show expertise in a 50-50 hindsight sort of way… golden.

I’ll bite. What’s an eyt?

This post is pretty lame.

EYT = earn your turns, poseur

[Manney]

Googled, found. You got me. I’m also Santa, the Easter Bunny and Pepe the Frog.

[Stephen]

Stephen, I just think you can blame the Meidjos and the big stiff boots that go with them. Slow twisting falls w/o a release was a problem from the beginning. There was a lot of discussion about it on the web, probably 15 or twenty years ago. The system is so rigid, that when something is going to give, it's probably going to be your body. All of the rigidness can give you more precise control, but it's not too forgiving. Do you think the same kind of fall on your xcd gear would have resulted in the same injury?

I want to add that I think those 195 x 118 skis were too big for a guy your age and experience level. Shorter skis are easier to ski and are more forgiving. At this point in your telemark journey I think more forgiving gear is a better choice than more precise gear, to prevent these types of injuries.

Good luck with your recovery.

Do you think the same kind of fall on your xcd gear would have resulted in the same injury?

Absolutely not.

Thanks for all that, @lowangle al.
Taken in the spirit I’m sure you meant.

Skiing seems to be a “Hold my beer” sort of adventure.
We all (should) know that it’s inherently risky, yet choose to participate.
After negative outcomes, always easy to retrospectively look back and realize better choices could have been made.
I used to think it was possible to optimize life and choose the “best” path.
I’m getting over that, though.

[Manney]

There is just “the path”. It’s yours. Neither better or best. Just yours. Nobody else owns it. Ppl trying to sell you on their path aren’t helping. Adding noise. Things you can do to find your path… health, fitness, study, professional training, practice.

Healing first. Then rehab to get stability, strength, range of motion, dynamic movement, endurance (fitness) back.