Speed test: heavy tele vs XCD touring

[fisheater]

Thanks for posting @DG99 I have read similar from @lowangle al for years. I have never had a reason not to take Al for anything than a good skier sharing his experience. I take your post DG from the same perspective.
However unlike either of you guys, I’m not putting a computer on my wrist. I may be old, I may be slow, it feels fast to me and makes me happy, unlike a computer laughing at me!

[lowangle al]

Fish, are you saying you don't have a gps app on your phone? They are really good feedback.

[DG99]

Thanks for posting @DG99 I have read similar from @lowangle al for years. I have never had a reason not to take Al for anything than a good skier sharing his experience. I take your post DG from the same perspective.
However unlike either of you guys, I’m not putting a computer on my wrist. I may be old, I may be slow, it feels fast to me and makes me happy, unlike a computer laughing at me!

Ah, yes, there’s something to that. On good conditions the light gear is fun and feels fast zipping along trails in rolling terrain.

[fisheater]

Fish, are you saying you don't have a gps app on your phone? They are really good feedback.

No gps app other than my map program. Is there an app that you recommend?

[lowangle al]

I use Strava. Besides the feedback on distances and speed, it keeps a record of weekly totals by activity, and lots more. It's also gotten me unlost on a few bushwacks I've taken through some Pa. swamps.

[DG99]

OK, just one more test. This time with T4s on both skis. (The T2s don’t work on the Outbacks, way too much rocker launch and the 3 pin bindings are right on the ski, no ramp angle).

Route was 4.9 miles, 543 feet, skied back to back, XC first, then tele. Snow pretty old, refrozen tough trails. Wouldn’t have worked well in the soft boots!

Gear was
Outback 68, T4s, 3 pins for 11.6 lbs. “XCD”
Vector BC, Scarpa T4, Voile Switchbacks for 16.5 lbs. “Tele”

Stats were:
XC gear, 3.8 mph average moving speed, 11.2 max. 1:22 total time.
Tele, 3.7 mph average moving speed, 12.3 max. 1:24 total time.
…..about the same. Even though I was more tired out for the second run.
XC average stride 2.81 m, 39 strides per minute
Tele average stride 3.57 m, 31 strides per minute

XC average heart rate 129 bpm, max 148 bpm
Tele average heart rate 116 bpm, max 147 bpm
……once again, tele seemed strangely more efficient

Looking at the segments, the tele was around 0.1 mph slower on the flat and climbs, but 0.5 mph faster on the descending section.

The T4s worked OK on the Outbacks, kind of awkward overkill but helped a lot on the icy uneven trail conditions, A bit of rocker launch and flex resistance on the pins. Those skis with the high camber, narrowness and light brittle feel were tough on descents, getting tossed and hung up. Much faster and smoother on descents with the Vectors. The lighter, higher camber, narrower, grooved, straight tracking XC skis didn’t buy all that much efficiency.

Still thinking, if in doubt go with better descending gear rather than more efficient XC gear…….

[DG99]

One more test…. We still have lots of snow. Both skis with T4s due to the difficult conditions. Outback first….

The XC trail through the woods was pretty steep this time. Of course Vectors killed it downhill but they do wander on blown out trails. Once again no real XC efficiency advantage. What?

Vectors uphill 2.7 mph (avg moving speed), Heart rate 128, BPM/MPH 47.
Vectors downhill 4.3 mph (avg moving speed), Heart rate 129, BPM/MPH 30.
Outback uphill 2.6 mph (avg moving speed), Heart rate 129, BPM/MPH 50.
Outback downhill 4.1 mph (avg moving speed), Heart rate 122, BPM/MPH 30.

I did notice the weight of the vectors, feel kind of ponderous. And the Outbacks feel light and quick at first but that doesn’t seem to translate to better numbers.

[lowangle al]

I did some more testing too this winter. I got some Madshue M68 and skied them with leather boots, and then switched to T4s and skied the same trails on the same day. I did about 4.5 with the leather boots and 5.75 in T4s. I averaged 3.5 mph in both boots, even though I was nursing a sore foot for the last couple miles in the T4s and would have been faster.

Another surprise was when I did about the same tour a day later with double camber skis, kick wax and leather boots. I had a decent kick and a good glide and thought it was faster, but it was under 3mph. I guess at a certain point of steepness double camber is not an advantage, I gained about 400'/mile.

The reason I think the vectors do so well is because of that rock solid kick.

[jtb]

Is it possible the free pivot of the switchback contributes to the longer stride length over the 3 pin binding? Personally, I love the feel of kick and glide with a free pivot, but I feel like I'm in the minority on that. I see others talking about how to add a bumper to a tech toe, or how to swap bumpers on Xplore. I came to XCD from a BC telemark background rather than nordic, so maybe I just don't know what I don't know... but I never feel the desire for a toe bumper on a wider scaled ski.

[lowangle al]

It's pretty much just a feel thing. It obviously works, AT skiers do it on scaled skis all the time. It might not work as well with kick wax because you need to get your ball of foot down to get more weight on the ski to "set" the wax. It's also awkward for sidestepping and tight maneuvering. I think you are right though, with the greater ROM with lack of resistance you get a longer stride and it is probably faster.

I think it can be more efficient, so it's something I want to take advantage of. My wife likes it, she started using it to relieve the rubbing that was causing blisters on her heels.