Nnnbc magnum bindings on wide skis???

[Lo-Fi]

I'm feeling like the 78mm waisted ski is getting to the upper end of what NNN BC is optimized for.

Hey Lo-Fi-
Do you think this is a limit of the binding or a limit of the boot?

I don't know if we can extrapolate from this:





Maybe... 30% binding, 70% boot(?)

[Baaahb]

XCD isn't even a thing - much less a "doctrine".

So it is a religion??? An excuse to suck????

I ski Rossy BC-125' with 3 pins and leather and love it. Of course it is very different than with cable and plastic, but it's also different than on a narrower ski, especially on soft snow. IMO the softness of the Rossy's is important, and relatively light weight.

I have never had luck with nnn-bc. Does it really give you as much edge control as leather/3pins? Maybe my problem has been in the boots....those buckle boots always look so promising but have never panned out for me.

[Cannatonic]

>>I have never had luck with nnn-bc. Does it really give you as much edge control as leather/3pins?

I think it depends on your feet & your bones. For me NNNBC has never felt even close to the control I get w/ 3-pin and thick welted 75mm sole. For others it does. I know I have weak feet and I've always needed stiffer boots in every sport from simple hiking to basketball and snowboarding.

[freeheelwilly]

XCD isn't even a thing - much less a "doctrine".

So it is a religion??? An excuse to suck????

Oh I don't know. After further reflection I guess I'll concede that as tele got heavier, XCD, which was there all along, actually did emerge as a separate and discrete "thing". But I wonder how much we're going to continue to slice and dice this whole thing we call "skiing". I do all these things - Fixed heel and free-heel "alpine", XC on double camber skinnies with leather slippers on groomed trails and touring in the backwoods on rolling terrain with single camber, metal edged skis and heavier boots. It's all just "skiing". I'm not sure what purpose is served by accentuating the differences and creating different places on the internet to discuss them. But there's worse things, I suppose, and I'm not losing any sleep over it.

[jyw5]

I'm feeling like the 78mm waisted ski is getting to the upper end of what NNN BC is optimized for.

Hey Lo-Fi-
Do you think this is a limit of the binding or a limit of the boot?

I don't know if we can extrapolate from this:





Maybe... 30% binding, 70% boot(?)

Great pictures! I just love the comfort of soft boots. Skiing in plastic boots and hard charging down steep slopes does get boring after 30+ years. The soft fluffy snow on a light NNN BC with 4 lbs skis is amazing...You can feel the snow under your feet (yes, like wearing slippers). There is something magical about that. Turning with your toes is great...I love xcd!

I personally haven't found a difference between the magnum and regular NNN BC bindings. But I'm also only 145lbs. Maybe weight may make a difference?? I have regular NNN BC bindings now mounted on S112 (78mm underfoot) and FT62. They are both amazing in different ways. I don't think I would go wider than 78mm either. The Fischer OTX boots are extremely comfortable and warm but durability is terrible. I have a pair that are almost done (only part time use for less than 2 seasons).

Now if my Alfa Guards ever get here from Sportalbert, I will be happy...been waiting since January 6th...getting a little worried.

[Johnny]

I don't know if we can extrapolate from this:

We cannot. You are comparing cross-country boots and bindings with buckled plastic tele boots and cable bindings... Two different things, two different sports, two different skiing techniques...

I sure can see something very clear on that picture of the excursions: A lot of control, but no feeling at all... The plastic and cable prevent all the magical essence of the telemark turn to rise into the skier's heart and soul. Nothing left except control and nice level-3 CANSI-style looks downhill... 0% of the precious XCD feeling reaching the brain cells.

Skiing in plastic boots and hard charging down steep slopes does get boring after 30+ years. The soft fluffy snow on a light NNN BC with 4 lbs skis is amazing...You can feel the snow under your feet (yes, like wearing slippers). There is something magical about that. Turning with your toes is great...I love xcd!

Ahhhh...! You are reading my mind jyw5! So glad to hear that I'm not alone in XCD Land! I threw away all my T4s, Excursions and Voile cables several years ago... Although I thought that hardcore telemark was 10 times more fun than alpine, XCD in leathers is just 100 times more fun than telemark...

[Baaahb]

I sure can see something very clear on that picture of the excursions: A lot of control, but no feeling at all... The plastic and cable prevent all the magical essence of the telemark turn to rise into the skier's heart and soul. Nothing left except control and nice level-3 CANSI-style looks downhill... 0% of the precious XCD feeling reaching the brain cells.

Darn, can't wait to hear your opinion on NTN.

[Johnny]

I LOVE NTN! ♥
In fact, I love every single flavors of free-heel skiing... Each of them have different feelings and different fun factors and rewards... Only, the XCD nectar is the trickiest to harvest... It takes a lot of finesse to collect... One has to go through a very specific and unique procedure to really feel it...

[Lo-Fi]

I don't know if we can extrapolate from this:

We cannot. You are comparing cross-country boots and bindings with buckled plastic tele boots and cable bindings... Two different things, two different sports, two different skiing techniques...

Hey, whoa les moteurs, Johnny!

I agree: XCD with lighter gear is extra super fantabulous. Having a light, nimble and tactile system that you can cover distance on and seamlessly tackle any uphill or downhill on, relying largely on finesse, is exhilarating. Invincible!

I just posted the above comparison in reference to what type and width of ski that NNN BC is optimized for. I love my 78mm waisted Guide skis, and my 98mm waisted Koms. I'm just not sure the Koms are the most appropriate XCD match to the Magnums and Alaskas.

I'm still curious to hear from all about what the widest skis are that are being used with NNN BC.

Just to stir it up, I'd also throw out there, that as efficient as an NNN BC system is for K&G within an XCD context, a 3-pin duckbilled Norwegian welted sole, still feels the most organically satisfying for smearing out telemark turns.

Meanwhile, I love squeezing the most hard-cranking turnity turns I can out of the nearby, nearly impossible and improbable bushy, bumpy, eastern-crusty terrain that I am blessed/cursed to have available. For that, in my (falsely) humble opinion, the Excursions, Hardwires and Koms are exquisitely matched!

[phoenix]

Sometimes, the greater the feeeeeeel, the greater the flail. It's all good... survival technique on skinnies and leathers, or dancing where and how you'd like on a little more boot and ski. Mind you, I ski the spectrum myself, choosing the tools and the terrain as the day, and my mood, suggest. There's times when too light a set up will spank you, and times when too heavy will dull the experience. Surely there must be some device (maybe an app?) that tells one just what ski, boot, binding, and socks are recommended for the undertaking. Is the tour leaning towards xcD, Xcd, XCD, xc, XC, or...?

Meanwhile, "It doesn't matter the places you choose or the tools you use, it's all skiing". RIP, Allan Bard.