Wildly speculative talk about Asnes 21-22 lineup: Otto/FT62

[lilcliffy]

I don't think there is a consistent relationship between camber height and stiffness. I had a ski with very high camber yet it skied soft.

TOTALLY agree Al.

Camber and stiffness are not the same thing and should not be construed as such.

I have both old Roald and the young Gamme staring at me- neither of them have very significant camber- but MAN are they stiff!!!!!

[lilcliffy]

New FT Explore 196 cm has arrived. The difference between this ski and my original FT in 189 cm is much like the color of the skis, black and white. There are significant differences. I have chores to finish, then I will see if I can be more quantitative than significantly different.
If I were Norwegian I would just say we tweeked the camber, taper, and wax pocket, no major changes!

MORE!!!!!!!! Give us more!!!

[fisheater]

From the skis:

Red/White FT 62 189 cm
97-62-86

Black/White FT 62 Xplore 196
97-62-86
23.2 M turn radius

What I can quantify:

Red/White FT
Chord length 186.4 cm
Rocker termination chord measure 370 mm
Camber 11 mm

Xplore FT
Chord length 194.7 cm
Rocker termination chord measure 380 mm
Camber 30 mm

What I see and feel:
The tail is flatter, it does not turn up until past the wide point. This may help tracking, might be less surfy

The camber is significantly stiffer. The red/white squeezes together easily. This ski can be squeezed flat by hand, but it’s getting to the point where it is getting resistant. As a side note it is stiffer than my S-112

The tips and tails are significantly softer on the red/white FT. It is an obvious difference. There is no doubt in my mind that the difference is significant. No question, “Am I flexing this ski harder”? No question, no doubt this ski will be MUCH more stable. This ski should also handle mank better.

This ski at 196 cm is much straighter over it’s length. I think only part of this is due to the length, I think the shape has been tweeked a little.

What does this mean? My guess and hope is this ski will tour significantly better. As for turning, I am mounting it Super Telemark 75 mm. I am quite confident it will turn quite nicely, but if I need some extra umph I can always use my Ski March boot.

Well hopefully there will be snow soon, and it will stay all winter. I hope to put some miles and do some turning as well on this ski.

[fisheater]

[fisheater]

I forgot to add one last thing. It seems like the tail section of the ski is a bit stiffer than the front section of the ski. Back when I was young and good looking, they made slalom skis with stiffer tails. This is not like that at all, just a little stiffer. I would think it’s for cross country performance. I never liked those stiff tail slalom skis. I don’t think I’ll have the same issue with these skis

[Woodserson]

Thanks Fish.

I just handled the new black FT62 as well.

They are also torsionally stiffer. They resist the twist more.

As Fish noted the tail lost the splay, it's direct touch right to the contact point now before the upturn.

Stiffer, torsionally stiffer, no rocker in the tail.

I don't know how I feel about losing the rocker in the tail. I like the schmear factor. I think I would've been ok with it had they narrowed the tail a bit so it doesn't grab or hook and releases easier.

Fish, I think they are going to be perfect for you, man!

[Nitram Tocrut]

(I also have received another live report from mon Quebecois-Canadien ami stroking and flexing all of them on the floor at the shop this afternoon (and the rumour is that Otto went home with le gars to the homestead...))

Well my growing theory is that-
Its really more of a perspective than a theory-

I think that each of these skis is an individual passion- a work- a work of passion-
Obviously they are manufactured by the same company, so the designers and skiers in the company are aware of the particular nature of each of theses skis-

But, I don't think the overlap between these skis concern that passionate research and design- each ski is an individual journey and process of design and skiing.

For a few years the overly logical-analytical part of my mind has been trying to sort these skis into descrete categories- each their own slice of a spectrum- but the niche of each of these skis does not fit neat and tight up against each other.

Take the FT62 and the Rabb 68-
When the first-gen FT62 and FT68 first came out I was logically perplexed-
what is the difference between these skis- why would one choose one over the other? As the design and testing of these two skis progresses it becomes clearer that there is a different work of passion at play with each of these skis- which makes them different, but by default- not intent- creates and maintains a lot of functional overlap between them.

So- my perspective is that each of these skis is the result of modern R&D steeped in ancient tradition and passion- a passion for skiing in the wilderness.

So despite the design-intent for each of these skis to be uniquely different, the passionate feedback of skiers to the designers results in much functional overlap between them.

On top of all of that, they are traditional, wood-cored skis- I am confident that each pair is a little different from the other in terms of stiffness, camber and flex, and would be best hand-selected by the skier.
..............

Regardless of all that crap I just wrote-

I have it from a reliable source (le gars/ le fermier) that:
- the Sverdrup has visibily less pronounces shovel-tip rocker than the Ingstad
- the Sverdrup has visibly much more pronounced underfoot camber than the Ingstad
- the Sverdup is signifcantly stiffer than the Ingstad underfoot
- the Sverdrup has a bit of a raised tail- compared to the Ingstad- was described to me as even a bit similar to the new FT62...

I am VERY excited about meeting Otto.

Ok. I had the chance to spend some time in a store full of Åsnes and I could compare Otto/Ingstad/Nansen/Gamme/Amundsen… I won’t compare all of them like @lilcliffy would but from what I saw we can almost end the speculation and affirm that the Sverdrup has an identity of his own. It is almost fully cambered from the shovel to the tail. The camber is, i am pretty sure, the highest of all the above skis. It is way stiffer underfoot than Ingstad/Nansen and if I recall well, maybe LilCliffy remember, even stiffer than Gamme and Admundsen. I can fully squeeze the Ingstad and the Nansen with one hand but can’t get to that point with the Sverdrup for whatever that means. The tail seems similar to the new FT62. I am pretty sure this type of ski is more adapted to the snow conditions I most encounter around. I can see those skis to be pretty fast and if they are even easier to turn than the Ingstad I can see them to be really interesting in our terrain where we have small hills and sometime a few kilometres of rolling terrain to get there.

Oh well, hopefully you can make something out of my observations… the staff in the store are XC BC passionate and there is a lot of excitement about it… let the snow fall so finally some can write an actual real life report

[Nitram Tocrut]

New FT Explore 196 cm has arrived. The difference between this ski and my original FT in 189 cm is much like the color of the skis, black and white. There are significant differences. I have chores to finish, then I will see if I can be more quantitative than significantly different.
If I were Norwegian I would just say we tweeked the camber, taper, and wax pocket, no major changes!

I am relieved that I did not misled you about the new FT. I saw it again side by side with the white/green one and they really seem to be a different beast. It will be good to read your report and I am particularly curious about your experience at the resort. No way I would do it but curious to read about it!

[fisheater]

@Nitram Tocrut I had complete faith in your initial observations. I called Neptune and they had two pair of Xplore FT at 196 cm. Your observations, current supply, and the fact I have some vacation time to use this winter. I don’t know if I’ll be at the resort, my son is 19, he is pretty busy. He is the chair rider. Our weekend ski trips were about more than skiing. He liked the restaurant meals, the side stops, and the skiing. If it wasn’t for the whole experience, the skiing alone wasn’t a big enough draw for him. The trip I will always remember, and I am glad happened involved me catching a tip. The ski pole grip caught me on the cheek bone and opened me up, it then slid along my head and split my ear. It was a real opportunity to assess an injury. Being a head wound it looked bad, it made him think it was serious. It gave me an opportunity to show him how to handle the injury. While I could butterfly the cheek, I couldn’t put the ear back without stitches. We went to the hospital. It was just such a good thing for a becoming young man at 16 years. The next morning a coil pack went out on the way to church. We got it fixed by early afternoon, as we had to find parts in a rural area. We only skied a few hours for an entire weekend. However I couldn’t have asked for a better weekend to spend with my son at that age. So the moral of the story is the time skiing is about so much more than the skiing. As long as you’re having time with your children it’s all good. For what it’s worth, he isn’t an avid fisherman either!

[lilcliffy]

I forgot to add one last thing. It seems like the tail section of the ski is a bit stiffer than the front section of the ski. Back when I was young and good looking, they made slalom skis with stiffer tails. This is not like that at all, just a little stiffer. I would think it’s for cross country performance. I never liked those stiff tail slalom skis. I don’t think I’ll have the same issue with these skis

The Ingstad and the Combat Nato have slightly softer shovels than their respective tails as well- not enough to make them unstable, but enough to make the shovel more flexible. (The tip on the Combat Nato is supple as well.)