Sweaty feet syndrome

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TallGrass
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Re: Sweaty feet syndrome

Post by TallGrass » Fri Mar 03, 2023 8:51 pm

Krummholz wrote:
Fri Mar 03, 2023 8:11 pm
The good stuff is at the end…
for TL;DW

1. Disassemble boots, liners, socks and WRING* them all out thoroughly.
2. Put foot gear over heat source (risky if gets to hot).
3. Bring anti-fungal for or to prevent athlete's foot et aliis infections.
4. Keep boots IN-side tent, and do not let them freeze under any circumstances*
5. Put (damp) socks, footbeds, liners, inside jacket and under arms in the tent, even the whole boot if need be.
6. Bring votive candles (tea light pucks in metal tin) and prop inverted boot throat 10 inches over candle, one per boot, and constantly monitor.
7. Shove a nalgene bottle of boiling water (dry threads, check for leaks first) in boot.

* It takes 80 calories to convert a gram of 32F ice to 32F water, and 540 water to steam. Easier to wring out water than boil it off. Easier to keep from freezing than thawing -- if it's wet it's not below 32F, but once solid it can drop further.



I like the votive idea. My SHTF back up has been four grocery bags dry bagging fresh, dry, thick socks. If I submerge a boot, de-wet as best I can, then foot->bag->sock->bag to keep foot from (s)wetting out sock insulation from inside and boot from wetting out sock from outside. Then U-turn back to trail head (summit will be there for another day) and KEEP MOVING to prevent it from freezing solid. If hike is longer, swap at least one pair of bags with oven bags.

I haven't had any submersions in winter yet (knock on wood), but have had them in above 32F weather (other seasons) and from putting crampons on jungle/desert boots to go up a shaded gully in shoulder seasons which wetted out from melt -- they're basically shells with closed cell insoles, so I just took them apart to air out while I switched wool socks (double safety pinned wets on back of pack to dry), re-booted, and hiked them dry.

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TallGrass
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Re: Sweaty feet syndrome

Post by TallGrass » Mon Mar 20, 2023 5:41 pm

Skijoring Grace Gale wrote:
Tue Feb 28, 2023 9:03 pm
1) Plastic turkey bags as vbl - too much moisture, toes become pickles, easy rubs and bunches create blisters
This is a good write up on Vapor Barrier Liners (noting here so it pulls up in Search) from "DAVE'S NORDIC BACKCOUNTRY SKIING PAGE":
https://web.archive.org/web/20151002150 ... ner/vb.txt

There are three things at play which one has to understand, and their interactions:
- the human body/physiology
- the characteristics of H20, it's different states, and properties
- thermal dynamics

Expecting or looking for something that will "let your foot breathe and keep warm and dry in the winter" shows a lack of understanding of one or more of the above. E.g. expecting the water (liquid) molecules from perspiration will gain enough energy to
1. reach 100C (212F),
2. gain an additional 540calories/gram to convert from 100C water to 100C steam,
3. maintain that thermal energy level while passing through all layers of footwear and their lower respective temperatures and
4. move fast enough through them before it condense back to water (or ice)
5. in outdoor temps below freezing (0C, 32F)
6. all while keeping cold outside air out
7. thus a one-way air flow

I know of no one who has figured out an economically feasible method, rather they either implement VBLs directly or indirectly via a "sacrificial" sock which gets damp with sweat (including Mickey and Bunny boots), or just have to dry out the insulating layers (boot liners, socks, etc.).

Any "breatheable" boot I've worn in the back country (mukluks, goretex, whatever) in sub-freezing (<0C, <32F) snowy conditions for hours on end has always frosted over, gotten snow caked, or otherwise had the shell stiffen from frozen water. If sweat (vapor or otherwise) is prevented from getting to the outside surface via a coating (snoseal, etc.) but no VBL, the outer can still freeze stiff via the sweat under the sealant. The only long-term (as in hours) success I've had in maintain footwear flex is with VBLs.

I've found the same for handwear (gloves, mitts, ...) which is why used ones removed (like for using phone) go in a chest pocket to keep warm or they'll freeze stiff, and why I carry bone dry backups in a plastic bag in my pack.

I set "dry" glove I was wearing on the ground to repair a snowshoe binding (field fix via old extra shoelace lashing) and they were like cardboard when I picked them back up. Switched to back ups and put the cardboard in my chest drop pockets to thaw them out, then swapped the pairs when they did.



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Skijoring Grace Gale
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Re: Sweaty feet syndrome

Post by Skijoring Grace Gale » Mon Dec 11, 2023 4:43 pm

I did end up purchasing the Lundhag Abisko Expedition Xplore boots. While I purchased the same size as my Alpina Alaska, they are unfortunately huge on my foot. I of course persistented to 'see if I can make them work' instead of sending them back to the EU and exchanging. In fact, I feel I could even gone two sizes down which is a size less than my running shoe they are so gigantic. Grr. I get a big blister from rub on my heel moving about.

The toe box is also very roomey, which is nice for stretching the toes, but it seems I have to wait a entire long second for my foot to lift up enough to move my ski. Anyone in AK want to trade a sz 41 for 40??? :)



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lilcliffy
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Location: Stanley, New Brunswick, Canada
Ski style: backcountry Nordic ski touring
Favorite Skis: Asnes Ingstad, Combat Nato, Amundsen, Rabb 68; Altai Kom
Favorite boots: Alpina Alaska BC; Lundhags Expedition; Alfa Skaget XP; Scarpa T4
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Re: Sweaty feet syndrome

Post by lilcliffy » Mon Dec 11, 2023 7:05 pm

@Skijoring Grace Gale
Crappy.
Por moi- the Expedition last is definitely wider and larger-volume than the "Guide" last- but, there is no way I could size down with the Expedition as it would be too short...

Which model Alaska do you have (size 41EU?)?
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.



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Ernst R
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Re: Sweaty feet syndrome

Post by Ernst R » Tue Dec 12, 2023 6:25 am

Having done many multi day (5-12) hikes in similar temperatures as you posted. Many helpful suggestions have already been given, these would be my additions.

1/ a VBL is actually the best option. I use the RAB VBL socks and take extreme care when putting them on to avoid rough bunched up areas. Many people wear a light sock inside the VBL (for comfort), I do not, and feel the VBLsticks better in place to my naked foot. An alternative VBL would be a thin neoprene diver's sock, these can be found in 1-3 mm thickness. Yes, you feet will still be macerating in their own juices, but soft and better fitting neoprene might be more comfy for you.

2/ As suggested, wool liners (1 on your foot, 1 simultaneously drying) could be an option as well. It remains warm, even when wet.

3/ A bit more drastic, but just thought I would mention it, iontophoresis is also an effective option.



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Skijoring Grace Gale
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Re: Sweaty feet syndrome

Post by Skijoring Grace Gale » Sat Dec 23, 2023 11:31 am

lilcliffy wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2023 7:05 pm
@Skijoring Grace Gale
Crappy.
Por moi- the Expedition last is definitely wider and larger-volume than the "Guide" last- but, there is no way I could size down with the Expedition as it would be too short...

Which model Alaska do you have (size 41EU?)?
Yes, Alaska 41 EU.
I tried again with the Lundhags and I received a shin bone bruise that sent pain down to my toes. Wow! I've never achieved a shin bruise with ski boots before. I'm about healed up enough to try them again!



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Skijoring Grace Gale
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Re: Sweaty feet syndrome

Post by Skijoring Grace Gale » Sat Dec 23, 2023 11:40 am

Ernst R wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2023 6:25 am
Having done many multi day (5-12) hikes in similar temperatures as you posted. Many helpful suggestions have already been given, these would be my additions.

1/ a VBL is actually the best option. I use the RAB VBL socks and take extreme care when putting them on to avoid rough bunched up areas. Many people wear a light sock inside the VBL (for comfort), I do not, and feel the VBLsticks better in place to my naked foot. An alternative VBL would be a thin neoprene diver's sock, these can be found in 1-3 mm thickness. Yes, you feet will still be macerating in their own juices, but soft and better fitting neoprene might be more comfy for you.

2/ As suggested, wool liners (1 on your foot, 1 simultaneously drying) could be an option as well. It remains warm, even when wet.

3/ A bit more drastic, but just thought I would mention it, iontophoresis is also an effective option.
Thank you!
Yes, it's either devil or the demon with moisture.
Breathable but cold, sealed tight and contained, or frozen rock boot. That neoprene takes forever to dry out even over a wood stove, I wasn't a fan. I think I'm most liking the vbl most. Usually one day I get too hasty when freezing in the morning, shove my foot in my boot to get moving, and get rubs from not taking time to sort the layers out.

On the good news, we've been having fresh snow here everyday and it's going to be a white white Christmas!



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