New skis (for when Ingstad WL do not work)

[lilcliffy]

@LaplandPaul
That is great news!
I love the E99/TN66-XL- it is ultralight, has a snappy, poppy camber underfoot, and a smooth, soft, rockered shovel.
Wonderful ski!
..........
Fischer→ put the damn easy-skin insert in the TN66 Crown.
......
Best wishes to you Paul and the remainder of your ski season!
Gareth

[wabene]

@Roelant great post and I agree. When you have that ace in the hole in your pocket, an integrated kicker skin, especially on a cambered ski like the Gamme, you really only have to wax for the colder, easy to wax conditions. If it gets warmer, mohair skin, fast snow and very nice! The Transnordic 66 Crown has no Easy Skin attachment (we all know this makes no sense), the Transnordic Easy Skin XL is the waxable version that has the skin attachment. Forgot to make that clear.

[Jurassien]

The Transnordic 66 Crown has no Easy Skin attachment (we all know this makes no sense), the Transnordic Easy Skin XL is the waxable version that has the skin attachment. Forgot to make that clear.

I also overlooked that in my previous post, as all my three E99s are of older vintage. I overlooked the rocker on the current ones as well, as none of mine have it.

That just underlines the fact that a ski, especially as in this case a model which has been in existence for close to 50 years, undergoes a lot of changes in the history of its production. It was maybe not a good idea to recommend a current model based on my experience of its predecessors. I'm sure the OP was not ill-advised though, as the Transnordic 66 is designed for the same usage as the E99, in spite of the differences, and I'm sure the very effective fishscale pattern hasn't changed much.

Hard to understand why the current waxless (Crown) model is produced without the short skin attachment.

[Capercaillie]

No one at this forum is going to suggest that you don't need another pair of skis (and it looks like you didn't need any encouragement anyway), but have you tried your Ingstads with the mohair kicker skin? 30mm mohair skin shortened to where your heel is on the ski basically turns any Åsnes ski into a skin ski.

I have been skiing the current season 205cm Fischer TN66 since December and current season 195cm Ingstad since last week, both wax at around 75kg. I decided to purchase the TN66 based on what people had written here about the E99. The TN66 feels like a completely different ski to me than what people have written about the non-rockered E99. I would like to try an old E99 to see for myself. The Trans-Nordic rebranding looks like honest marketing: the TN66 tracks straight, glides fast, and is stable on low-angle hard, icy snow. A "trans-nordic" expedition ski. Really tuned for the kind of terrain in LaplandPaul's photos. As lilcliffy points out, it has many of the same weaknesses as the Ingstad. The Ingstad is IMO more predictable in hilly terrain, more versatile, and better made. Any encounter with breakable crust on either is going to have you wanting to run to the classifieds to buy a 220cm non-rockered ski (stores don't sell 220cm skis anymore!). Do you need another pair of skis? The answer is always the same!

Hard to understand why the current waxless (Crown) model is produced without the short skin attachment.

Is the Crown base really good enough to compensate for the TN66's poor climbing (which I believe is due to a very stiff camber and very tall rocker)? Out of the 6 skis I have, the TN66 is by far the worst at climbing (worst grip, worst herringbone, worst side-step). It really needs the 50mm easy skin on any sustained hills. It's not a ski you would take anywhere that needs full-length skins either.

[LaplandPaul]

One way to make the Ingstad waxless work in cold powder is to add some wax in front of the waxless pattern over 15-20cm or so

That's actually a great idea! I will have a try for sure. The reason I do not want waxable skies is mainly that I live in an apartment and do not have space for dirty work There is a waxing station at my lokal xc trail where I go for hot glide waxing 2 or 3 times a year but it takes me some hours to go there, set up, clean and go home. Therefore I can not just change the kick wax at home to adapt to the current snow conditions. To the people that prefer kick wax, how often do you change it? Does it make a mess? From the tutorials on youtube it is hard to actually get a feeling for how it is done in real life over the season.

it looks like you didn't need any encouragement anyway

Life is too short to stick to the same pair of skies forever


Another UPDATE:
we had between -25ºC and -15ºC the last 2 days and there was some new snow today, about 10cm. It was super fluffy and the layers below were quite consolidated where I skied, with a curst in between. I compared my Ingstad 205 (2022) to the Fischer TN66 205 (2023) on 4 different snow situations on the lake behind my apartment:
A) rough xc trail where several skiers skied allready.
B) rough xc trail where people walk and some fresh snow is on top
C) untouched snow, 10cm of fluff, consolidated snow below with some crust layer inbetween
D) same as C but after breaking trial and going back and forth several times

For me, the TN66 had superior grip in all situation (weight of me was about 82kg). The glide was significantly lower with the TN66 in A. With the Ingstads I could push myself easily with the poles, on the fischer I was not able to really get any speed only using the poles. On B the kick and glied performance was similar but the Ingstads had a very hard time to stay straigt, they wanted to go left and right and you needed a lot of effort to stay straight. The TN66 tracked straight with no problem. On C when making the first trail, the Ingstads floated a little better but it was nearly impossible to kick and glide due to lack of grip. I rather had to walk and pushed the skies forward. The TN66 where easier to kick and glide but when just walking, they felt like more effort as they sank deeper in the snow. However, the biggest difference I noticed on D: the TN66 were amazing in the track, really nice kick and glide, good gliding, acutally similar glide performance as Ingstads. The Ingstads however did not provide enough grip for me, I had to really focus on putting all my weight + a little stomp on the ski to be able to produce a kick. In short:

A) Ingstads win
B) TN66 win
C) when fast: TN66; when just walking: Ingstad
D) TN66 win

I attached a photo comparing the camber and the rocker. The rocker seems much weaker in the TN66 compared to Ingstads. But the shovels are definitaly softer. When there were bumps like in snow B, the soft shovels actually helped getting over the bumps. The ingstads bumped into the bumps and slowed the ski down somewhat. I think for these cold, dry powder conditions, the Fischer crown just worked better then the Åsnes scales. Pobably a wider Fischer ski with more stiff shovel would be best (as suggested before, the Traverse 76?).

Weight difference on paper is (including bindings):
2710g Ingstads 205 + magnum
2460g TN66 205 + bc manual

But the weight on the TN66 feels more concentraded around the binding therefore the ski is much easier to manuver around.

I will keep updating when I have more experience

[wabene]

The only time grip and glide isn't a straight up inverse relationship is when that sometimes elusive Kick Wax Magic happens

[corlay]

Another UPDATE:

really nice analysis!
The pics at the bottom of the post really illustrate the conditions explored.

I also own the TN66 Crown, and like the ski a lot - and especially for "D" pictured above,
same as you.

I own the TR78, and do use it for turs where conditions are like "C" pictured above.
Break trail with the TR78, and then blaze through on the TN66 the next day.

Note: I typically avoid conditions like "A" and "B" above.
Except for maybe connecting stretches of logging roads that I have to share with snowmobiles.

[TallGrass]

The reason I do not want waxable skies is mainly that I live in an apartment and do not have space for dirty work There is a waxing station at my lokal xc trail where I go for hot glide waxing 2 or 3 times a year but it takes me some hours to go there, set up, clean and go home. Therefore I can not just change the kick wax at home to adapt to the current snow conditions.

Kick wax is rubbed on like chalk or a crayon, then rubbed in with a cork. There is no drippy hot wax nor wax fur shavings from scraping, and many do grip wax in the trail head parking lot. If anything, kick wax IS suited for an apartment, IMHO.

[Capercaillie]

To the people that prefer kick wax, how often do you change it? Does it make a mess?

I too live in an apartment. It is hot glide waxing that is messy. There are a lot of old myths about grip waxing on the Internet: that it is better to grip wax when the skis are cold, that you should not rub the cork too much, or that you need to remove softer (warmer) grip wax before putting on harder (colder) grip wax.

Yesterday I put 2 layers of Swix Polar (-15°C to -30°C) over the Swix Violet Extra (0°C to +1°C) already on the ski, at room temperature in my apartment, and went for a 25km tour. The wax lasted the whole way. So I wonder where these myths come from?

I find it easiest to put grip wax on at room temperature and rub it vigorously with a synthetic cork (natural cork does not work) until the wax is a translucent even film. It is really easy (a lot easier than hot glide waxing, and I personally find it easier and less time consuming than dealing with removable skins) and there is no mess. I might scrape off a layer of dirty wax that has pieces of bark and pine needles in it - generally only happens to very warm klister-wax like Swix Silver/Red (this kind of wax I find easiest to spread with a scraper instead of cork). Otherwise there is no need to remove it; the wax comes off by itself as you ski. If you want to clean off all the wax (maybe to change from glide wax to full-length grip wax, or vice-versa) put a few drops of wax remover at a time on a rag and there is no mess.

[lilcliffy]

Good stuff on the "labors" of grip-kick waxing↑