AT/randonee race bindings on Asnes Ingstad?

[bauerb]

I can't comment on the skis, but a few thoughts about boot/bindings: the Aliens will not be warm if its brutally cold. maybe get some overboots. race bindings may not have releasability, depends on the model. I suggest adjustment plates for the binding heel piece so you can swap boots at some point without re-drilling

[jyw5]

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Very cool. Are you doing mostly tele turns on the downhills with this setup?
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yes. when the snow is good. when it isnt, some light jump turns or pturn works fine too. and if it is really bad, step/kick turns are last resort.

@spopepro
thanks!

@ochotona_ak

I think it is all a compromise. it all depends on your use case. always a challenge in the variable terrain and weather in Alaska. for each outing, you weigh out the pros and cons. I did the Eklutna Traverse with S125+Silvretta+La sportiva G2 boots. it was terrible on the hard icy section on the last day.... but I chose this setup over an AT setup because I wasnt comfortable climbing in AT boots...the 60 degree downclimb of the 600ft Raven Headwall was thankfully supportive that day and not too hard and not too soft that any boot with crampons would have worked. Overall, I don't regret using that setup, the climb up mixed ice glazed rock to get on Eklutna Glacier on day 1 was difficult and I don't think I would have made it with ski boots. The middle section at Hans Hut had very dry light snow and I went for a pleasant evening tour carving small parallel turns just fine on that clunky setup.

But for other more casual outings, especially day trips, NNNBC is about 99% of my trips out... I think of it as 90% of the trip time is spent going uphill... so many times, comfortable light setup is all that is needed...only need a stout setup for difficult conditions such as deep snow, weather, water, climbing, steep pitches, etc.

I forced myself to get better on NNNBC as it allowed me to access glaciers up high in the summer without having to carry heavy and bulky gear. I would hike in with sneakers and switch to the leather boots and skis at the snowline. it worked for the past 5 summers allowing me to ski year round in Alaska. The one I did the most frequently was Snowbird Glacier. Would day trip it from June to October (from road opening to close). AT and plastic only made sense in the winter for hard charging descents.

I would encourage @snow-mark that you give NNNBC more of a chance. its much cheaper and lighter than any light AT setup...and easier to transition (most often, no transition if you use kicker skins on the whole time or use tip attachment full length skins). Ultra light AT boots in my opinion don't ski that much better on difficult conditions than sturdy leather boots ...but that could also be that I have been in leather boots for a long time and my alpine downhill ability on bad conditions are poor. I generally think about what is tolerable, simple, and efficient...and evaluate based on the fact that 90% of touring is uphill...and NNNBC really fits for most one day outings. The difference of a few pounds is also incredibly liberating.

[jyw5]

for steep descents in perfect snow, I use:

FT62 + NNN BC + Alfa Guard Adv + full length OR gaiters + pomoca 62mm full length tip attachment skins + 1 extra backup pair ... that entire setup (including gaiters, skins) weighs 11lbs.

the only thing I would do different is manual bindings. I think Ingstad would be much better than FT62 when the snow is not as ideal. but the FT62 flies down the mountain faster than most AT skiiers on good feather light spring snow.

Very cool. Are you doing mostly tele turns on the downhills with this setup?

yes.

check out this post:

https://telemarktalk.com/viewtopic.php? ... dot#p42848

snow was perfect that day. I skinned up onto the saddle and skiied down from the saddle at the right of the highest point down to the lake.

[ochotona_ak]

@@jyw5 totally agree about it all being a tradeoff. For me, my goal is to maximize both speed and performance. I've been skiing 75mm since I was 5 and had a long freeheel addiction so I feel very comfortable with those techniques, but to me nothing comes close to the weight and confidence of a skimo race setup for moving fast in steep terrain and have never felt like plastic boots hold me back on climbing up to WI4. I will say that I totally disagree with you that ultralight AT boots ski as well as leather boots - I've pretty comfortably skied the Big Coulouir at Big Sky (50 degrees) in my skimo race boots and would never attempt that in leather boots. So far I've liked my Objective BC setup because it has the least compromises of any system I've come up with so far for distances under 50 mi (did the Bomber traverse in 4:50 last winter on them)

. What I'm hoping to solve with the Ingstad system is for those long flats where kick & glide is necessary, and hopefully not mess up the balance to be able to skate when I hit snowmachine tracks or crust, while still being able to lock in if I need the confidence boost.

And @bauerb - I already got some OR Xgaiters that I've tested down to about -10F happily but you're right about that being necessary.

[turnfarmer]

Once you find the right boot, you may find this interesting- viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1407&p=47934&hilit=Anrothar#p47934
There is a guy on the earn your turns forum who did this to a pair of Garmont AT boots covered the bellows with electrical tape and has 150 days on them without problems.

I’ve prototyped a bumper for a Trab toe similar to the explore Xplore system. Idea is to make it on/off with a pole. But that’s as far is I’ve gotten, not really ready to share yet.

[jyw5]

@@jyw5 totally agree about it all being a tradeoff. For me, my goal is to maximize both speed and performance. I've been skiing 75mm since I was 5 and had a long freeheel addiction so I feel very comfortable with those techniques, but to me nothing comes close to the weight and confidence of a skimo race setup for moving fast in steep terrain and have never felt like plastic boots hold me back on climbing up to WI4. I will say that I totally disagree with you that ultralight AT boots ski as well as leather boots - I've pretty comfortably skied the Big Coulouir at Big Sky (50 degrees) in my skimo race boots and would never attempt that in leather boots. So far I've liked my Objective BC setup because it has the least compromises of any system I've come up with so far for distances under 50 mi (did the Bomber traverse in 4:50 last winter on them)ANe7qZQbF-jZtFgYaGljruIfhHXkmALHltOuiEJeqiQ-1536x2048.jpg. What I'm hoping to solve with the Ingstad system is for those long flats where kick & glide is necessary, and hopefully not mess up the balance to be able to skate when I hit snowmachine tracks or crust, while still being able to lock in if I need the confidence boost.

And @bauerb - I already got some OR Xgaiters that I've tested down to about -10F happily but you're right about that being necessary.IMG-2267.jpg

My wife has the Arcteryx Procline boot. it is lightweight and has a fair range of motion in touring mode. I think you can easily mount lightweight pin bindings to the ingstad and pair that with similar boots. 2 other friends of mine have those boots with Volkl BMT 94s and we did a 7 day tour in BC a few yrs ago. They also used it on Denali up to camp 1 or 2 before switching to mountaineering boots and stashing the ski setups.

I think k&g wouldnt be bad. I don't own the Ingstads but I gather that they are good for steep and deep terrain and downhill oriented but still have enough camber for flat XC. It would have been my next ski purchase had I not moved away from AK. The long flat approaches and kibbles and bits snowmachine tracks in AK are something I won't miss. I did enjoy skiing glaciers and visiting all the huts.

and as for leather vs. plastic... I'm not great at downhill skiing, so my ability with light plastic boots is marginally better than leather when conditions aren't good. In most conditions, I agree...plastic alpine/AT, I ski way better. As for our other skiier who posted, @snow-mark, alot of choosing just depends on what he plans to do... large heavy packs? steep terrain? any climbing? long flat trails? what season/snow conditions? it all just depends. if he isnt skiing couloirs and bowls and steep and deep lines, with a little practice and some videos or lessons, either setup could work.

[satanas]

FWIW, I also strongly disagree that leather boots offer anywhere near the control of AT. I've been skiing the Dynafit TLT5P boots for several years now and IME these give vastly more control on descents than even plastic tele boots, while saving weight on both the boots and bindings, and having vastly more ROM for kick and glide. The only downside is that one cannot do tele turns without risking breaking something, but everything else is better. (I'd like to think that one day Scarpa might come out with a better tele boot - or that there might be some miracle with Xplore - but won't be holding my breath.)

Also, I don't have problems with keeping my skis tracking straight on the flat (original Voile Vector), but then I've never had this issue with any BC or XC ski; YMMV.

One caveat though: I find I need to lock the heels to skate efficiently, though you may be able to avoid this if you can mount the bindings differently so the skis don't catch.

[TheMusher]

I havent tried myself, but have some examples:

1) I've heard rumors that some participants in the Åsnes Amundsen Expedition Race - a 100 km flat backcountry race with pulk at Hardangervidda in Norway - have used AT systems and finished in top positions. Unfortunately I don't have the details. I was surprised when I first heard this, but on a second thought it isn't very surprising: over 100 kms with a heavy pulk, the added speed from flexible boots and flexors are probably very diminishing.

2) Recently, I also know the crown prince of Norway skied & snow-kited across the Greenland with AT boots and bindings. They used wider AT Åsnes Fjøro skis. See this link for the story with pictures https://www.nrk.no/_kitekongen_-over-gr ... 1.15993951

3) Børge Ousland used NNN-BC when he skied and kiting solo across Antarctica in 1996-97 without external supplies.

If you prefer a locked heel, I say go for it. Best way to find out. Besides, I salute concepts that are outside the box.

Before that, I'm not sure you'll get much traction from the audience at a freeheel forum like this

In essence, I think what you give up is (a) some ability to travel light & fast on flat terrain, and (b) some comfort (although this is highly personal..), (c) some warmth (which can be compensated for), (d) some nordic skiing feeling, and most obviously (d) telemark downhill technique.

I think you will gain some with respect to kiting stability, downhill stability, and feet-ancle-calf salvation.

[TheMusher]

On the technical side, I think your binding attachment will be fine as long as you are precautious downhill?

If you want to be on the safe side, I believe the Combat NATO ski has internal reinforcement for binding attachment and as such is probably an even better option for AT bindings - if it's not too late. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Montana St Alum]

Sure, why not!
Regarding to concern about pulling a binding, have you considered using inserts? IDK if it's feasible for your application, but it seems that would be more secure.