Fat skis? Overrated... sometimes

[Rodbelan]

I see a lot of guys on the slopes when it is icy with 90-100 mm waist skis... I understood when I did a little shopping; the sellers are offering wide skis as an «all around, all mountain skis»... What one doesn't know is that it is much harder on the knees on hardpack... The new trend correspond to a new market...

I use my Bushwacker (88 mm) when we receive a dump... even when it is 10 cm, it skis pretty well. They ski just as good on the groomers but I noticed that my knee were suffering a bit... I talked about it around (instructors) and I got my answer...

I have a pair of Blizzard Samba (98 mm) that I will use (once? maybe twice this year?) after a storm...

BTW Mike, I do not agree with you: skiing with leathers and pins doesn't necessarily lead you to acquire the set of skills to ski big skis and burly boots... and vice versa. Some ski well with leather and pins but can't ski with big boots & planks... and someone who's used to burly stuff doesn't necessarily have the set of skills to ski pins...

[MikeK]

BTW Mike, I do not agree with you: skiing with leathers and pins doesn't necessarily lead you to acquire the set of skills to ski big skis and burly boots... and vice versa. Some ski well with leather and pins but can't ski with big boots & planks... and someone who's used to burly stuff doesn't necessarily have the set of skills to ski pins...

I agree - I most likely will never go to NTN and plastic boots for telemark. I've skied plastic with alpine though, so I know what it's like.

I'm just not sure about people going backwards, unless they get frustrated and just want to ski away from resorts. Maybe my scope is very limited but the resorts I used to go to telemark was VERY rare. I'd once a great while see someone dropping a knee. It seems to be more prevalent at Gore for whatever reason.

I do however notice a lot of people skiing xc on BC nordic gear. Mostly people like me who want to get away from the groomed centers. Then maybe some of us get more interested in getting better and the dh aspect and want to learn telemark.

As far as fat skis... sheesh - I don't know how some of those guys ski them on ice. I was skiing skis with 76mm waist and they were great for groomers. Still heavy as all heck. I hated that. I also skied them once in about 6-8" of powder over a hard base - they were fine. No way would I have wanted a wider ski for that.

PS I should add I made that comment before because soooo many people online were telling me to not waste my time with leather boots and skinny skis and just get plastic and go to a resort and learn. They are probably right - I probably would be able to ski fairly well on that gear by now... but I'm more interested in skiing in the woods than at resorts.

[Johnny]

Oh nooooo....!! Not that thread again!!!!

I will never understand people skiing with fat skis in the east. People are so funny. I think it's sad. The funniest thing is that shops would make a lot more money telling the truth to their customers: One pair of skis for every different type of ski condition. I keep hearing people bragging about how great their S7 can carve on groomers... The world is spinning backwards...

Nothing carves like a SL or GS ski on hardpack.

I do think anyone who learns to tele on pins and leathers will be much better plastic skiers. Because you have to have the perfect balance on leathers, your whole body has to be in the right position to turn efficiently. You can't rely on the boot's tongue for your lack of stability. And all of this is worth years of practice on 4-clip plastic boots...

PS: Yeah, the Glits are super fun to ski the groomers! Bring yours over here one day!

[CIMA]

I do think anyone who learns to tele on pins and leathers will be much better plastic skiers. Because you have to have the perfect balance on leathers, your whole body has to be in the right position to turn efficiently. You can't rely on the boot's tongue for your lack of stability. And all of this is worth years of practice on 4-clip plastic boots...

Indeed.
That is particularly notable if you're skiing on powder.
To learn the balance, practicing on XC skis would be the best.

[Dongshow]

Keep feet moving.

[Weissbier]

Would you explain the knees, hardpack and fat skis thing? I don't have fat skis-- just curious about what you are saying.

[teledance]

Plenty of people love their fatties, and ski them in all conditions. I just shake my head when its nothing but hard groomers. To each there own way.

[connyro]

I do think anyone who learns to tele on pins and leathers will be much better plastic skiers. Because you have to have the perfect balance on leathers, your whole body has to be in the right position to turn efficiently. You can't rely on the boot's tongue for your lack of stability. And all of this is worth years of practice on 4-clip plastic boots..

I sort of agree and sort of don't agree. Everyone has their own learning process. I like to compare learning how to tele well to learning how to ride a mountain bike well. I started out mtb on an 80's steel frame bike without disc brakes or suspension. I equate this to metal-edged XC skis and leather boots. It was fun but a little frustrating once you find the 'limit' to your gear and your skills on that gear. I wanted to be able to climb and descend steeper and rougher terrain at a higher rate of speed than I could on a rigid bike or leathers/skinnies. Once I got a mtb with good brakes and suspension, I started to learn a whole new skill set and began to ride the way I always wanted. Same thing with 4 buckle boots, HH bindings, groomers, and fat and/or heavy skis: they helped introduce me to another level of skiing skills.

Eventually, once I gained the needed skills on the 'heavy' gear, I found myself wanting to translate those acquired skills BACK to the lighter, more primitive gear: rigid steel 29er and 3-pins/leathers/lite plastic. The 'limits' that I noticed on the old gear when I was less skilled seemed to disappear.

My point is that the process of learning how to ski does not always need to be linear. Sometimes, some people need a crutch (big gear, groomed slopes) to help you gain a new perspective and skills in order to progress with learning. Start simple, get more complex, learn some skills, eventually go back to simple, and enjoy. YMMV. NOTE: I still love the feeling of smearing across deep powder with fat skis and I unwilling to give up my disc brakes...

[connyro]

balance is so critical skiing lite and balance is much easier skiing heavy.

All things being equal, I agree. However, on 'bigger gear', a skier can increase the range of their terrain to include skiing steeper, rougher, deeper, tighter, higher-consequence lines than they might might on light gear.

various poling moves.

Like the highly touted DPP?

[connyro]

Well, I really avoid most poling moves at all if possibly, conny, but what sort of inspired me to post that was last fall I saw this video of someone in Finland(??) skiing ultralite and he did so many both single and double-pole hop turns it was really tiring to just watch! But he was smooth and effective. The only reason I could see why he was using them must have been very gear specific as the snow did not look "bad" at all, just common Spring-like snow. I'll see if i can find it. I don't ski a lot of ultralite gear anymore, and sometimes I do miss it.

Do you mean this guy? http://www.fftv.no/fjellskiskolen-ep-2-svingteknikk-22