Any experience with BD Stiletto boot? How stiff?

[rongon]

Hi everyone,

I have a male friend with narrow feet, who picked up a pair of BD Stiletto boots in his size, maybe 8 years ago or so. He say's they're extremely comfortable for him. He's become interested enough in NY State backcountry touring-for-low-angle-turns-in-the-woods that he picked up a pair of Madshus Panorama M78 (aka Madshis Annum, aka Karhu Guide), and is thinking of putting a pair of the red Voile Switchbacks on them.

He swears the Stiletto, even though it's a 4-buckle boot and was marketed as a 'big ski' boot, has a soft forward flex and should feel light enough for forest skiing. I was just reading up on the Stiletto boot, and I have my doubts about that. It seems they were marketed as being the biggest, stiffest boots in BD's line of telemark boots for women. So...

Does anyone have experience with this boot? If worn by a man who's about 5' 8" tall, 160 lbs, would that boot be monstrously big and stiff compared to a Scarpa T4 or T2 eco? Or was the Stiletto boot a fair amount softer and flexier than the men's 4 buckle Push boot, so with a medium-sized man skiing in them, they'd feel more touring-oriented than the Push?

Thanks in advance for any info you can share.

[EvanTrem]

My understanding is that the BD Stilleto was equivalent to the mens Push boot just different colors and smaller sizing. I've skied theBD Seeker and the BD Custom. They sit on either side of the Push/Stilleto as far as flex. I would say even the Seeker is most similar to a T2. The BD Custom was a monster, stiffest 75mm boot ever made I think. Where the Stilleto lies in between I'm not sure. I think with a neutral binding you could get away with Panoramas or similar skis. I've skied my Annums with T2s and Voile 3 pin cables and found it to be pretty fun but maybe too much boot.

I think that finding a t4 or similar will give you the best results along with a neutral binding.

[rongon]

Thanks, that's pretty much what I expected. I ski my pair of Annums with red Switchbacks and Crispi CXP boots. Why those boots? Because they're the only boots that fit me. I tried to get Garmont Excursions to fit, and just could not. I can't wear Scarpa boots because the curved bellows hits my foot in a bad place, and a bootfitter can't widen the boot there. So Crispi CXP it is for me. (I also have a pair of CXA, but the flex is the same, no real difference).

So, if the BD Stiletto is stiffer than the Seeker but less stiff than the Custom, that should put it around the same general stiffness as a Scarpa T2 eco.

It's a good observation that it's probably best to use a *neutral* binding (like the *red* Switchback) with a stiffer boot on a pair of Annums, so as not to completely overpower the ski. I was thinking of trying Switchback X2 bindings on my next pair of Panorama M78 skis (bought last year when there were rumors that Madshus was going to discontinue them). But I think I'll stick with the plain Switchbacks to maintain the feel.

I find my Annum-Switchback-CXP setup is a more XC-friendly version of Voile Vector BC, and is 90% as capable turns-wise in soft snow. I love the setup. The Annum is a peculiar ski in that with plastic boots it begins to feel like a lightweight downhill ski, while with lighter boots its cross country-ness comes out more.

[Rodbelan]

I confirm: Push and Stiletto are the same boot. If I remember well, from a question I sent years ago to BD, even the last is the same... But these boots are heavy, for inbound use. For a comparison, I have a pair of Axis, which is their dedicated off piste boot... Lighter and a little softer than the Seeker, but still... heavy! I use them inbound and really like them... Would not use them off piste. Not sure about using Stiletto with nordic touring skis though... Well, you'll have to tell us about your experience...

[rongon]

Thanks for the data point.

It sounds like these boots are heavy. I mean.. Four buckles. You don't bother to put four buckles on a touring boot.

How big, stiff and heavy is the Push/Stiletto compared to Scarpa T2eco? Bigger + heavier than that?

Or are you thinking you'd never go bigger/heavier than a T4 or Excursion with Annums and Switchbacks?

[Rodbelan]

Yeah, they are heavier than the T2 Eco; I have a pair of red T2X (somewhat similar to the T2 Eco) and they are lighter than the Axis, which are supposed to be the lightest in the BD line-up...

T4 is enough boot for Annum + switchback, guaranteed...

Regarding stiffness, the Axis is a strange animal (like the other ones); the flexibility has a very solid, progressive feel. I think that is partly why people like the Push over the T1. Plus you don't have to ski in a «extreme» forward slant if you don't want to... I think these are great boots, but all this line-up is more suitable for inbound use...

[rongon]

T4 and Excursion are the 1st choice boots for Annum + Switchback, of course. But my friend says the Scarpa last won't work for him and the Excursion is gone.

I guess the thing to do is mount Switchbacks on those Annums, ski them with the Stiletto boots, and watch ebay, etc. for a pair of Crispi CXA or CXP. It's amazing how high the prices are for used 75mm boots right now.

[Wilfrid]

Hello,

Indeed, I just had a quick look at the price of 75mm boots and the prices are quite high.

[Rodbelan]

CXA and CXP are as rare (or disponible) than Excursion (Scott or Garmont). In the past, I found really cheap pairs on the used market in great shape.

I know you like the plastic Crispi, but I must say I didn't; I had a new pair of CXA (at least, they were the touring version of CXA). I never got used to the flex of the sole and bellow... While flexing, it felt solid to a certain point where it would collapse abruptly. I guess it is a matter of preference...

[rongon]

It's not so much that I 'like' or 'prefer' the Crispi CX models. It's that my weird, problematic feet can tolerate them. My feet can't tolerate T4 boots (the bellows crunches down on a wide part of my foot), and I really tried to make Excursion boots work, but failed (toe box too short - tried both 27.5 *and* 28.0, but no dice). I'm stuck with the older Crispi last (CXX. CXA, CXP). I even have a pair of CXT (touring, low 2-buckle) but it's a stupid design. The bellows is far too stiff to be driven well by the low cuff. If the bellows was softer flexing then it would be a reasonably good boot. That stiff bellows also means it doesn't tour well in a 3-pin binding --- so what's the point of it?

I tried a pair of XP boots, but they have a completely different last (narrower) and they're even stiffer than the CXP, which is not what I want or need. I spent a solid 6 hours with the bootfitter trying to get them to work, but failed. I sold them off at a loss.

So yeah, I completely agree. It's not that I 'prefer' Crispi boots of that era, it's that they're the only boots my feet can tolerate. It's either wear those boots or go AT.

BTW, I tried on a pair of Dynafit Radical boots and they fit me better than any telemark boot I've ever worn. It's just the truth. That's just how it is. My next glacier tour or trip to Tucks will be done in a Dynafit AT rig. The shame of it!
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