How Do I Turn?

[Krakus]

Well, if that topic could drift in a more technical way: I always had troubles with two turns described in Barnett's "Cross Country Downhill", namely open turn and compression turn (aka Austrian power turn). Especially the latter, I never was able to reproduce it according to text description. Could anyone help?

[jarlybart]

Go down...anything gets in your way, turn. Much easier to teach when on the snow than when on the internet. Find the local tele guru and buy them a beer for a few runs of fun.

[lowangle al]

If I were teaching someone to do T turns i would have them ski with an open (hip or shoulder width apart) stance with minimal fore/ aft separation between your feet.(half a boot length, just enough to give stability) This is a very stable position and even if you ski free heel gear and never use T turns it can prevent you from going over the "handlebars." If you can become stable in this "telemark position" turns will come naturally. I came up with turn myself, but I think it is the turn called the cowboy turn by others because you have to go bow legged to get the outside edge down.

This is a good place to start and the main point being that it gives stability first, then turns. If you're not stable it's going to be hard to turn. There is no "dropping the knee" involved, both legs are bent similar throughout the turn. The stability from the open stance comes from two things. First, you will not tip over with a wide base, second, with that wide base it is nearly impossible to not weight the rear ski. This solves the two biggest problems for beginners. As you feel comfortable with this you can close up your stance to something more comfortable , just don't get too far spread fore and aft.

[fgd135]

Well, if that topic could drift in a more technical way: I always had troubles with two turns described in Barnett's "Cross Country Downhill", namely open turn and compression turn (aka Austrian power turn). Especially the latter, I never was able to reproduce it according to text description. Could anyone help?

Barnett's book was groundbreaking at the time, but not very well written as an instructional guide, imho. He did get people out and thinking about how to turn, but many many skiers were and still are puzzled at his descriptions and diagrams. Some of his stuff simply does not work, at any level. Peter Estin's book from 1964, "Skiing the American Way" is a better instructional guide...and better tomes have been written on how to tele turn since 1978. I'd abandon Barnett completely and go with Parker's book, or a more recent video series.

[Montana St Alum]

There are lots of good videos. SkiwithUrmas has some good tips. Absolute Telemark is good. Written explanations aren't as good as seeing and imitating.

[bauerb]

interesting thread. I've been "just doing" tele for so long that I would have to think really hard about how to teach. I feel like I would start someone on a super shallow angle bunny slope, skis parallel, facing fall line, and ask them to simply let one foot slide back a little while still going straight, and then alternate feet while still going straight. if they can keep their balance, next step would be to apply a little weight to the inside edge of forward ski, "asking the shaped ski" to turn, then simply hold that position around a big arc. do that a few times and see how they are doing with balance. after that, its about connecting the arcs and proper body position to maintain balance. I would keep it that simple for a number of runs. body position and balance basics must come before anything fancy. but I admit I have no idea how to teach tele.

[Krakus]

The turns I was asking about are not tele turns.
As for tele, the thing is that all videos, local gurus (at least here where I live) etc. are oriented towards heavy gear and shaped, soft skis. There is little specific to light equipment, like NNNBC and XCd skis.

[fgd135]

Tutorials for non tele turns on nordic skis can also be found on line, or find instruction at a good xc center.
So many of us learned to parallel and tele turn with leather boots and pin bindings on (nearly) straight-sided xc skis and found ways to do the turns; I just don't think Barnett did a very good job of 'splainin' em.
Non tele turns are the same on alpine skis as xc skis, difference is subtle edging and wt. shifts, and focusing on keeping your wt. centered on the balls of your feet, since you've not got heel-holding bindings and no forward cuff pressure. Watch videos of skiers from the 60's and before, leather boot alpine skiing, plenty are out there, to get a sense of those ideas.
Here ya go:

[jarlybart]

Well, if that topic could drift in a more technical way: I always had troubles with two turns described in Barnett's "Cross Country Downhill", namely open turn and compression turn (aka Austrian power turn). Especially the latter, I never was able to reproduce it according to text description. Could anyone help?

Barnett's book was groundbreaking at the time, but not very well written as an instructional guide, imho. He did get people out and thinking about how to turn, but many many skiers were and still are puzzled at his descriptions and diagrams. Some of his stuff simply does not work, at any level. Peter Estin's book from 1964, "Skiing the American Way" is a better instructional guide...and better tomes have been written on how to tele turn since 1978. I'd abandon Barnett completely and go with Parker's book, or a more recent video series.

I own many, many books on the subject and could not agree more about Barnett vs. Parker books...Parker just gets it better and thankfully he was super key to how boots have progressed through the years all the way through NTN. Ton's of videos online as well so depending on how you learn, pick your poison but I still say grab the local tele nerd at the hill and go ski with them for a few runs or better...I am super thankful for all the time a few folks have spent with me through the years to help be progress and enjoy the sport even more.

[jarlybart]

The turns I was asking about are not tele turns.
As for tele, the thing is that all videos, local gurus (at least here where I live) etc. are oriented towards heavy gear and shaped, soft skis. There is little specific to light equipment, like NNNBC and XCd skis.

Not to be a nudge...but you are on a Telemark forum.