Uphill track ski

[SkyLiner]

I have a very particular use case: a groomed trail with set tracks that climbs ~2000 ft over the course of about 5 miles. When the grooming is fresh, I often skate up it. When the grooming is older and things are choppy, icy, or covered in fresh snow, I want to have some classic skis that are good for the climb AND the descent. The trail is on a logging road that switchbacks up the mountain, and the terrain outside of the road is mostly too steep to tackle, so I'm just sliding back down the road. Sliding down the road is FUN, but only if you have good enough glide to keep up momentum over the flatter parts.

I have some Madshus Fjelltech M44 skis with integrated (not removable) skins that I thought would be ideal for this. They are pretty good, but on the way up, I find that the skins are not quite grippy enough, and on the way down I can feel the skins dragging. I'm using 195 cm skis and I'm at the bottom of the recommended weight range for that length. So on a shorter ski, I might get a little more grip, but the dragging on the downhill would be even worse.

I have an idea that a better setup would be the waxable Asnes Mountain Race 48 with the removable X-skins. Put the skins on for the way up, and remove them for the way down. Is there anyone with that setup who can comment on how it might work for what I'm trying to do? Can you do any kick and glide with the X-skins on, or are you just shuffling at that point?

Any other skis I should consider for this? Or does someone want to convince me that I should just stick with the M44s? They are honestly pretty good. They're just a little frustrating going up when the tracks are icy, and the downhill is just a slight letdown compared to zipping down on the skate skis. It is nice to have the metal edge when conditions aren't perfect.

[Woodserson]

Where are you located? Europe gets access to a Fischer Power with edges! I have a Power Twin Skin, it's nice in icier track but no edges. Sometimes if it's really icey a bigger skin would be nice.

The MR48 is a good choice, the MT51 also, but a little heavier. The 30mm skins are ok for K&G and better on the more cambered skis.

Edit: the Power is very soft in the tips and tails and turns like dog shit. But the EF thing they got going on, which I suspect is partly because of the softer bits is really neat.

[wabene]

If your bindings are NNN mounted on NIS plates you could slide them all the way forward on the way up and slide them all the way back on the way down. If not there are aftermarket NIS plates you can screw onto the skis and get a binding that moves. Some of the new movable bindings are pretty slick and can be moved without taking off the ski. You have to take off the ski on my setup but it is a piece of cake and takes a minute or two.

[Stephen]

I had the MR48 for a while and liked it.
For what you are wanting, I think you would probably be happy with the MR48 with the narrow mohair X-Skins.
I have been really impressed with the glide with the mohair skins on a cambered ski.
The MR48 seemed to track pretty well, also.

[Rainbow83]

If your bindings are NNN mounted on NIS plates you could slide them all the way forward on the way up and slide them all the way back on the way down. If not there are aftermarket NIS plates you can screw onto the skis and get a binding that moves. Some of the new movable bindings are pretty slick and can be moved without taking off the ski. You have to take off the ski on my setup but it is a piece of cake and takes a minute or two.

Yes, I think this is the way to go. Most if not all of the NNN binding mounting systems available today have some sort fore/aft adjustability. Rotefella's NIS was the original, but there's others now. Salomon and Atomic have the Prolink Shift system, Rossignol and Fischer use the Turnamic system, which I've used and like a lot, and Rotefella now has the Move and NIS systems. I think that's all of them for now. What makes adjustable bindings so good is that you can adjust your grip for the conditions without needing to adjust what's on the bottom of the ski, so you can optimize for conditions with non-wax grip systems like skins and scales. Moving the binding forwards gives you more grip, back gives you better glide. Unless you want a ski with a non NNN binding system, I really see no reason at all to forgo adjustable bindings in this day and age.

[SkyLiner]

Where are you located? Europe gets access to a Fischer Power with edges! I have a Power Twin Skin, it's nice in icier track but no edges. Sometimes if it's really icey a bigger skin would be nice.

The MR48 is a good choice, the MT51 also, but a little heavier. The 30mm skins are ok for K&G and better on the more cambered skis.

Edit: the Power is very soft in the tips and tails and turns like dog shit. But the EF thing they got going on, which I suspect is partly because of the softer bits is really neat.

I'm in the Pacific Northwest, USA. So lots of snow, but it's often wet and rarely very cold. The elevation change on the trail in question is enough that the temperature and snow conditions can be a bit different at the top and bottom.

I'll keep an eye out for the Fischer Power with metal edges in case that makes it the the US. A little turning ability for the downhill would be nice though. What is the EF thing?

[SkyLiner]

If your bindings are NNN mounted on NIS plates you could slide them all the way forward on the way up and slide them all the way back on the way down. If not there are aftermarket NIS plates you can screw onto the skis and get a binding that moves. Some of the new movable bindings are pretty slick and can be moved without taking off the ski. You have to take off the ski on my setup but it is a piece of cake and takes a minute or two.

Yes, I think this is the way to go. Most if not all of the NNN binding mounting systems available today have some sort fore/aft adjustability. Rotefella's NIS was the original, but there's others now. Salomon and Atomic have the Prolink Shift system, Rossignol and Fischer use the Turnamic system, which I've used and like a lot, and Rotefella now has the Move and NIS systems. I think that's all of them for now. What makes adjustable bindings so good is that you can adjust your grip for the conditions without needing to adjust what's on the bottom of the ski, so you can optimize for conditions with non-wax grip systems like skins and scales. Moving the binding forwards gives you more grip, back gives you better glide. Unless you want a ski with a non NNN binding system, I really see no reason at all to forgo adjustable bindings in this day and age.

Well, the M44s do have an NIS plate. The skis originally had Rottefella MOVE bindings, but the attachment plate adhesive came undone, and the bindings fell off (the NIS plate is fine, the part that came off is an additional piece that comes with the specific bindings). The skis were returned to the retailer, and I picked them up used with the de-attached bindings. I still have the MOVE bindings in a drawer, but I'm using Xcelerator bindings on the skis. I have replacement adhesive plates for the MOVE bindings that Rottefella customer service graciously sent to me, so I could put those bindings on, though I'd worry about them just coming unglued once again.

I'm not sure it would completely solve my problem though. I already have the Xcelerator bindings set as far forward as possible for maximum grip on the uphills, and I still feel like I'm slipping more than I'd like. Moving the bindings back for the way down could help my drag issue, so maybe I'll give that a try next time. I've found that moving the Xcellerator bindings forward and back with the special key to be very difficult, and I'm not sure how it will go messing with that at the top of a mountain. If moving the bindings back for the descent makes a big difference, maybe I'll re-install the MOVE bindings.

I don't know if my expectations for grip while climbing are reasonable or not. It could also be a technique issue.

[SkyLiner]

I had the MR48 for a while and liked it.
For what you are wanting, I think you would probably be happy with the MR48 with the narrow mohair X-Skins.
I have been really impressed with the glide with the mohair skins on a cambered ski.
The MR48 seemed to track pretty well, also.

Thanks for your thoughts! Do you think the uphill grip with the attachable mohair X-skins would be noticeably more compared to an integrated skin like my M44s?

[wabene]

Yes, i have Rotte manual bindings and moving the binding with the key is difficult, i just throw my pack on the ground and put one end of the ski on it to push against and it has gone well. It seems maybe they have loosened a little after many moves making it easier. Some of the other setups do appear to be easier.

[Stephen]

@SkyLiner I have limited experience with the X-Skins this year.
I never used the 30mm mohair on the MR48.
I have used the 30mm mohair and 30mm nylon on the Gamme.
I have used the 58mm mohair on the Ingstad.
On the mohair, I have been very impressed with both grip (climb) and glide.

However, without knowing the steepest angle you would want to climb, and since I’m generally skiing drier snow than you are, I can’t make a 100% recommendation.
Partly, it depends on how you want to prioritize grip over glide or vice versa.
If you want to hedge your bet towards grip, use the 45mm mohair on the MR48.
The skins aren’t that expensive, so you could try one or the other and if the 30mm slips, go to 45mm, or if the 45mm seems slow, try the 30mm.
If you just want unrelenting grip, go 45mm nylon.
I didn’t like the 30mm nylon on the Gamme — it was too slow (but of course, great grip).
Also, there is the recommendation that nylon works better than mohair for wet snow (PNW).
If you do try the skins, warm iron waxing them helps hold out water and gives better glide, without seeming to noticeably decrease grip (in my limited experience).
Hope that helps more than confuses!